Baleforce
Ron Henry
I think standard operating procedure is "best guess" rather than "fact"
-
Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara
Mark Duggan
- Thread starter SpursLodge
- Start date
I think standard operating procedure is "best guess" rather than "fact"
\o/ I think we just agreed on something!
thfcsteff
Terry Dyson
No, I'm simply asking at what point someone decides that someone else might be armed. Did they base it on reputation? If so, that should be what's said. And if that was the case, then 'reputation' is not enough, you need evidence to justify the act. Again, that Mark Duggan was not a gift to humanity is not in question here. it's the precedent that this entire situation sets which worries me greatly...
thfcsteff
Terry Dyson
Funny.
I did not even think to 'conclude' that the police 'planted' a gun at the scene. I have no idea what happened. I have been wholly reliant on the evidence, which in DNA and eye-witness terms, made it very clear Mark Duggan was unarmed and that Mark Duggan had not handled a gun anywhere near the scene of the crime.
Jurys don't aways fill me with belief that justice has been correctly done mate. You might've heard of OJ Simpson and George Zimmerman...
thfcsteff
Terry Dyson
Fair enough, we all have different opinions. Someone somewhere disagrees because the importance of Duggan having had a gun in his immediate possession, when physical evidence could not be proven, seems to have been of paramount importance to the police! IF what you believe is the truth of the matter here, then THAT'S what should be presented and THAT'S what should be known. I have sympathy for the police, they end up in very very tough situations, but it is a high-stakes profession with very 'set' rules and regulations. Those need to be adhered to.
Jurgen the German
Tommy Harmer
I've had mixed experiences with the police. Before anyone says anything, I've never got into trouble or even been arrested or cautioned, clean as a whistle. I've asked coppers to give me directions to football grounds whilst on away trips and some of them were happy to help. Others, not so much. One outside Anfield told me to "**** off ****ney", all I did was ask for directions back to Lime Street Station :lol: Another time on the way to WHL before the Leeds cup game a few years ago we got on the same tube as the Leeds fans who were marched through the middle of the street with police escort, I tried to explain to a copper that I was a Spurs fans and wanted to get to the ground as it was a 20 minute walk from Seven Sisters and I only had 15 minutes to make kickoff. One copper then shoved me because I swerved to avoid a puddle and told me "if I have to tell you again you won't go to the game." 
I don't even remember him telling me the first time.
Bottom line, a lot of police officers are genuinely happy to help you, but others can be complete counts who are just itching to arrest you, or worse.
I don't even remember him telling me the first time. Bottom line, a lot of police officers are genuinely happy to help you, but others can be complete counts who are just itching to arrest you, or worse.
Come on, are you seriously trying to make that argument?! Being stopped and searched is rather more intrusive than unknowingly being captured by CCTV.
The polarisation and bias (on both sides) that overwhelms these kinds of debates is staggering and irritating.
thfcsteff
Terry Dyson
Good post.
Raoul Duke
Gordon Durie
Pretty much agree with this. If the police had acted the way they should have, there wouldn't be a debate I feel. They would have been able to prove their case without questions being asked. This whole case smells fishy to me tbh.
I honestly don't think there's a difference. Both are equally infringing my right to privacy on a guilty until proven innocent basis. It's not the inconvenience of being stopped, it's the assumption I'm in the wrong. For the same reason, I don't want anyone keeping my DNA. If anything, stop and search is the least problematic as I get to speak to an officer. For the same reason I hate speed cameras, but I don't mind being pulled over by traffic police when I'm speeding - once you give a good representation of yourself (wear a suit, listen to R4) you'll almost never get a ticket. I've lost count of the number of times I've been pulled over for speeding, but only had a ticket in person once.
I'm pretty sure the entire operation was based on the fact that Duggan was picking up a gun. I also think that you're probably asking the wrong question - I think the least debatable point in the whole event was whether Duggan had a gun. You may want to ask at what point that gun left his possession, but that he had a gun never seems to have been in doubt.
Whiffler
Jermaine Jenas
If at some stage he had a gun, it's in his possession until someone else handles it, or it is lost.
Too much of 'justice' system is pro-criminals, so some police feel the need to try and re-twist things to counter this.
You've heard of the 'fog of war', now we see it on the streets as 'the fog of policing'.
At the start of the day there were good folk and bad folk, at the end of the day there was one fewer of the latter.
Too much of 'justice' system is pro-criminals, so some police feel the need to try and re-twist things to counter this.
You've heard of the 'fog of war', now we see it on the streets as 'the fog of policing'.
At the start of the day there were good folk and bad folk, at the end of the day there was one fewer of the latter.
Superhudd
Simon Davies
I've had mixed experiences with the police. Before anyone says anything, I've never got into trouble or even been arrested or cautioned, clean as a whistle. I've asked coppers to give me directions to football grounds whilst on away trips and some of them were happy to help. Others, not so much. One outside Anfield told me to "**** off ****ney", all I did was ask for directions back to Lime Street Station :lol: Another time on the way to WHL before the Leeds cup game a few years ago we got on the same tube as the Leeds fans who were marched through the middle of the street with police escort, I tried to explain to a copper that I was a Spurs fans and wanted to get to the ground as it was a 20 minute walk from Seven Sisters and I only had 15 minutes to make kickoff. One copper then shoved me because I swerved to avoid a puddle and told me "if I have to tell you again you won't go to the game."
Bottom line, a lot of police officers are genuinely happy to help you, but others can be complete counts who are just itching to arrest you, or worse.
Disagree, like most people they got out the wrong side of the bed. Remember Football duty is not the best part of the job and I'd imagine very few actually like it, as ultimately its the nearest they get to violence without any, unless they get called on protest march or such like. Its like being told today, your going to The Old Den Millwall to a cup game vs West Ham.. lol '****... great' I'd imagine would be the reaction, couple that with being on the lash the night before and you can understand a few officers being a bit grumpy.
To point out, The first time was the time he tells you... if you do it again you won't go to the game. lol
Craig_J
Eidur Gudjohnsen
Yes, as a matter of fact I have. My dealings with the police don't ammount to much.
The first ever time was when I was 15 (I'm now 20 by the way, just for time reference) and as a policeman went by I remarked to my friend "there goes another copper, wonder what's going on" as quite a few police had gone by in a short space of time which isn't usual in the small town I live in. The police man then said "stand up" so I stood. As I stood a 50p coin fell out of my pocket. The policeman stood ontop of the 50p coin and said "show me some ****ing respect and don't insult me". I said that I'd only said copper and that its not really an insulting term to which he demanded an apology. It wasn't till I gave him an apology for calling him a copper that he removed his foot from the 50p coin.
The second time I'd been on a night out in a small town called Bury St Edmunds near the small town I'm from. This was a year ago and I'd had 4 pints. As I was outside the nightclub, because I look very young for my age (and still do!!) I was unfortunately Id'd. I had lost mine so left the club. Being in a town I'd never been to before I asked round takeaways to use the toilet, adding that I was desperate but they said no. So I found an alleyway and urinated down their to save my bladder, which felt like an over pumped ballon.
Admitedly I commited the offense of urinating in a public place and when the police came and arrested me I was happy to go with them. So you can imagine my suprise when I wake up in the morning and am told that I urinated in a public place (obviously) then supposedly swore and threatend the coppers!!!! I told the lawyer that I never swore at them and was suprised it resulted in this. But as the lawyer (if you can call her that!) said, either I accept an 80 quid fine or it's two police officers words against mine so I decided to accept 80 quid lose rather than jeporadise my place at university.
So theirs my two boring storys, now can we go back to the unarmed man murderd in our streets?
Craig_J
Eidur Gudjohnsen
In that case praise the Lord you weren't born with black skin.
Craig_J
Eidur Gudjohnsen
I've had mixed experiences with the police. Before anyone says anything, I've never got into trouble or even been arrested or cautioned, clean as a whistle. I've asked coppers to give me directions to football grounds whilst on away trips and some of them were happy to help. Others, not so much. One outside Anfield told me to "**** off ****ney", all I did was ask for directions back to Lime Street Station :lol: Another time on the way to WHL before the Leeds cup game a few years ago we got on the same tube as the Leeds fans who were marched through the middle of the street with police escort, I tried to explain to a copper that I was a Spurs fans and wanted to get to the ground as it was a 20 minute walk from Seven Sisters and I only had 15 minutes to make kickoff. One copper then shoved me because I swerved to avoid a puddle and told me "if I have to tell you again you won't go to the game."
Bottom line, a lot of police officers are genuinely happy to help you, but others can be complete counts who are just itching to arrest you, or worse.
In reponse to this I also forgot to add that I have had good experiences with the police as well as bad.
One time I was walking back from a town near mine after my father had had a bi-polar turn and decided he didn't want me round. The police pulled over as I was in the middle of no where and I instantly thought "What are they going to charge me for now!"
Instead they asked me what I was doing out there, after I explained and said what town I was walking towards they said they were driving towards that town anyway and that I could hop in and go with them.
They were serious fellas and sounded a bit to obsessed with their jobs, but was very grateful I got that lift home!!
paxtonwolf
John White
Superhudds off again
Cue a post at 11.18am
Cue a post at 11.18am
