Javier Hernandez

[braineclipse]

Re: The Little Pea....Javier Hernandez

Yep, a like for like backup to Soldado. Defoe would likely be shifted if we brought him in I would think.

It's probably good business considering his age but I like Defoe. He's been good to us if a little streaky in his goal scoring. Viewed objectively we should upgrade Defoe with a younger model, but I'd like to think there is still room for a bit of loyalty in the game.

I can understand why it would be good business for us.

I just don't understand why it's something Hernandez would want. If he leaves United for a club our size surely it would be to be first choice?

 

[onlyme]

Re: The Little Pea....Javier Hernandez

The more I think about it, the more I like this idea. Ideal for coming off the bench and he will get more game time than at United and more time to prove himself worthy of a start.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Javier_Hernández_Balcázar

25 yo . Near 1 goal in 2 games.

 

[braineclipse]

Re: The Little Pea....Javier Hernandez

The more I think about it, the more I like this idea. Ideal for coming off the bench and he will get more game time than at United and more time to prove himself worthy of a start.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Javier_Hernández_Balcázar

25 yo . Near 1 goal in 2 games.

Hernandez got 9 league starts for United last season (whoscored.com)

How many league games do you think we would drop Soldado to play Hernandez this season?

 

[onlyme]

Re: The Little Pea....Javier Hernandez

Hernandez got 9 league starts for United last season (whoscored.com)

How many league games do you think we would drop Soldado to play Hernandez this season?

Depends. Would you drop Hernandez for Soldado if he scores a hat trick against Chelsea?

 

[braineclipse]

Re: The Little Pea....Javier Hernandez

Depends. Would you drop Hernandez for Soldado if he scores a hat trick against Chelsea?

I'm not quite sure I understand your point...

If I would drop Hernandez? I don't quite see how he becomes first choice in the first place.

I think Hernandez would be a clear cut second choice behind Soldado if we signed him.

 

[NLS]

Re: The Little Pea....Javier Hernandez

We have Defoe so I would prefer a striker who can offer something different up front to Soldado.... Someone who can be a threat from outside the box when he receives the ball and not just a poacher type.... Benteke still greatly appeals as also offers a real aerial threat.

 

[scotty220]

Re: The Little Pea....Javier Hernandez

I've been saying the all summer. He would be a brilliant signing. His goals per minute is nothing short of exceptional. I believe its around every 80 minutes.

Edit: just checked, a goal every 95 minutes last season along with 5 assists in 22 games

 

[Superhudd]

Re: The Little Pea....Javier Hernandez

Hernandez got 9 league starts for United last season (whoscored.com)

How many league games do you think we would drop Soldado to play Hernandez this season?

Plenty of cup games to play him in, like 100% would have started tonight.

 

[monkeybarry]

Re: The Little Pea....Javier Hernandez

I can understand why it would be good business for us.

I just don't understand why it's something Hernandez would want. If he leaves United for a club our size surely it would be to be first choice?

the concept of first choice no longer really exists over a 60 game season.

first choice incinuates that playing time would be very limited, but even if you are not in the "ideal first 11" you will still play as squads are rotated to keep everyone fit and be in top form.

at Utd he will get less playing time BECAUSE they play 2 u front often. If RVP and Welbeck are the "first choice", then if either of them is rested Rooney is more likely to start than HH.

At Spurs, if we want to play 2 up top - in he comes. If we want to rest Soldado - in he comes.

 

[onlyme]

Re: The Little Pea....Javier Hernandez

I'm not quite sure I understand your point...

If I would drop Hernandez? I don't quite see how he becomes first choice in the first place.

I think Hernandez would be a clear cut second choice behind Soldado if we signed him.

Hernandez becomes 1st choice if he scores a hat trick against Chelsea.

 

[onlyme]

Re: The Little Pea....Javier Hernandez

the concept of first choice no longer really exists over a 60 game season.

first choice incinuates that playing time would be very limited, but even if you are not in the "ideal first 11" you will still play as squads are rotated to keep everyone fit and be in top form.

at Utd he will get less playing time BECAUSE they play 2 u front often. If RVP and Welbeck are the "first choice", then if either of them is rested Rooney is more likely to start than HH.

At Spurs, if we want to play 2 up top - in he comes. If we want to rest Soldado - in he comes.

Yes. Hernandez would be an ideal fit in this scenario. His chances are better here than at United.

 

[braineclipse]

Re: The Little Pea....Javier Hernandez

Plenty of cup games to play him in, like 100% would have started tonight.

League cup and Europa League will keep him happy? I don't see it personally.

the concept of first choice no longer really exists over a 60 game season.

first choice incinuates that playing time would be very limited, but even if you are not in the "ideal first 11" you will still play as squads are rotated to keep everyone fit and be in top form.

at Utd he will get less playing time BECAUSE they play 2 u front often. If RVP and Welbeck are the "first choice", then if either of them is rested Rooney is more likely to start than HH.

At Spurs, if we want to play 2 up top - in he comes. If we want to rest Soldado - in he comes.

Some players are clearly first choice players. Vertonghen, Walker, Lamela (if he signs) and Soldado will be first choice players. Much like Evra, Vidic, Rafael Carrick, van Persie are at Manu. When the big games come around, if they're fit they start. If the fixture list allows for it they start.

You really think we'll play two strikers with Soldado and Hernandez up front from the start any significant amount of time? I don't see it at all.

At United all of Rooney, RvP and Welbeck can play slightly deeper or wider roles. At Spurs Soldado is an out and out goalscoring striker. That's what he does, that's what he's supposed to do. That's where he stays. That's also pretty much the only position Hernandez has every played as far as I know.

I think he will be a backup player to Soldado if he signs. And I don't think he will want that.

 

[braineclipse]

Re: The Little Pea....Javier Hernandez

Hernandez becomes 1st choice if he scores a hat trick against Chelsea.

That's a pretty massive "if". Considering he would have to find some way to get on the pitch in the first place. More likely that Soldado scores a hat trick since he would get more game time.

And even if that happens his 1 in 2 goalscoring form (if that holds for us) would soon see him go a couple of games without a goal and Soldado would be back in the start line-up.

 

[onlyme]

Re: The Little Pea....Javier Hernandez

^^
I don't think Hernandez has played at all this season?

He would have played minutes or more in 3 games if he was at Spurs.

 

[braineclipse]

Re: The Little Pea....Javier Hernandez

^^
I don't think Hernandez has played at all this season?

He would have played minutes or more in 3 games if he was at Spurs.

A sample size of 2-3 matches? Can't see the relevance.

Listen though, I would be happy to be wrong about this. I've been wrong more times than I could count even if I was good at counting and had a calculator. Just my opinion that he would be a backup player here just like he is at Manu and I don't see why he would make that move. Makes no sense to me, but that doesn't mean it wont' happen.

 

[the fox in the box]

Re: The Little Pea....Javier Hernandez

get him in, ship ade out....

i think that would be great businuess....

I don't see it personally though, with our strikers staying as they are....

 

[monkeybarry]

Re: The Little Pea....Javier Hernandez

League cup and Europa League will keep him happy? I don't see it personally.



Some players are clearly first choice players. Vertonghen, Walker, Lamela (if he signs) and Soldado will be first choice players. Much like Evra, Vidic, Rafael Carrick, van Persie are at Manu. When the big games come around, if they're fit they start. If the fixture list allows for it they start.

You really think we'll play two strikers with Soldado and Hernandez up front from the start any significant amount of time? I don't see it at all.

At United all of Rooney, RvP and Welbeck can play slightly deeper or wider roles. At Spurs Soldado is an out and out goalscoring striker. That's what he does, that's what he's supposed to do. That's where he stays. That's also pretty much the only position Hernandez has every played as far as I know.

I think he will be a backup player to Soldado if he signs. And I don't think he will want that.

what im saying is, there is a distinction between "first choice" and a "first 11"

it is rare that a team gets to play their "first 11" consistently throughout a season - there are too many games as well as other factors such as form and slight injuries.

the game is a squad game now, and his importance in our squad will be greater than that of his squad position at Utd.
so he has a better chance of playing more games here, and a better chance of getting a run in the team.

if soldado turns his ankle and is out for 4 weeks, HH gets 4 weeks. if he comes in and scores goals, AVB has a tough decision to make.
if RVP turns his ankle and is out for 4 weeks, HH "might" get chosen, but probably will be behine Rooney or Welbeck.

there will be times during the season where we may want or need to 2 up top - whether its to change the course of a game and just to beat a certain opponent.

football has progressed from teams playing a "chosen 11" and "chosen formation" all season.
yes, there will be favoured personnel and tactics, but a squad needs flexibility and depth.

imho, if he signed (which i don't think he will), he would play 30 games in total across 4 competitions. (mixture of starts and sub)

 

[braineclipse]

Re: The Little Pea....Javier Hernandez

what im saying is, there is a distinction between "first choice" and a "first 11"

it is rare that a team gets to play their "first 11" consistently throughout a season - there are too many games as well as other factors such as form and slight injuries.

the game is a squad game now, and his importance in our squad will be greater than that of his squad position at Utd.
so he has a better chance of playing more games here, and a better chance of getting a run in the team.

if soldado turns his ankle and is out for 4 weeks, HH gets 4 weeks. if he comes in and scores goals, AVB has a tough decision to make.
if RVP turns his ankle and is out for 4 weeks, HH "might" get chosen, but probably will be behine Rooney or Welbeck.

there will be times during the season where we may want or need to 2 up top - whether its to change the course of a game and just to beat a certain opponent.

football has progressed from teams playing a "chosen 11" and "chosen formation" all season.
yes, there will be favoured personnel and tactics, but a squad needs flexibility and depth.

imho, if he signed (which i don't think he will), he would play 30 games in total across 4 competitions. (mixture of starts and sub)

The difference for me is that he's too similar to Soldado, whereas he's not very similar to the rest of the United strikers. They can bring him on to give them something different. For us he would be more purely a backup striker. Yes injuries will happen and then he will get games, perhaps more easily here. Although any injury to any of the 3 strikers supposedly ahead of him at Manu will give him more game time whereas for us it's only the one player.

We may want to go 2 up top, but for me at least two strikers like Soldado and Hernandez together will very rarely be the solution. Yes, towards the end of some games I can see it happening, but from the start? I don't see it. So, like at United, he becomes an impact player.

If he was good enough to make it a tough call between him and Soldado why sign Soldado? Why not just sign Hernandez who is younger and cheaper?

He had 22 appearances just in the league last season for United (9 from the start, 13 as a sub). That's just the league. So we're back to the EL and cups keeping him happy - only when the going gets tough and the games get big we'll probably still turn to Soldado. Like I said, I doubt that's what he'll want if he chooses to leave United.

 

[Huddy]

Re: The Little Pea....Javier Hernandez

Under Redknapp and our counter attacking I would have said get Hernandez in, in fact I did on a few occasions. Under AVB and our slow build up play I'm not so sure Hernandez would have as big an impact, he doesn't really add anything other than box poaching and I think he'd struggle to get the service he needs from the wings due to inverted wingers or the space to run into due as I mention our slow build up play int he final third.

 

[monkeybarry]

Re: The Little Pea....Javier Hernandez

but when you play two up top as your prefered formation, you need different types of strikers to create the space and link up - that won't be our default, but will be an option we can use if/when needed.

the theory that because he will be Soldado's understudy means we shouldn't sign him is a very risky one, as it assumed Soldado will a) not get injured, b) not lose form and c) be able to sustain at least a moderate level of form for 60 games.
the only i can think that can acheive a,b and c are Messi, Ronaldo and RVP.

we will be looking for top 4, a domestic cup win and a EL win this season - that will involve A LOT of players playing in different competitions.
with our primary formation being 1 goalscorer up top, it is ESSENTIAL we have a player like Soldado as an alternative option.