Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

[Glenda's Legs]

So what stops somebody from those countries, if they have a valid asylum claim, obtaining a visitor visa and entering the country legally to then claim asylum?

Well off the top of my head - if I were fleeing war/persecution : I might not have enough time to go through a lengthy visa application process; I may not be able to travel to the applicable visa processing centre which might be hundreds of miles from my home or may even be in a different country (or I guess I just first apply for a visa to that country first?); I may not be able to provide a good enough reason for my visit (not having tried it this is an assumption but “sightseeing” just might not cut it); I may not have the necessary funds to demonstrate that I can support myself whilst visiting; I may not be able to show that I have reason to return home again after my trip.
But apart from that, sure, it’s easy.

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

Talk about uneducated

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[robp135]

You didn't but I saw a clip of him being taken to massive task by someone from yesterday who was, that was a wider point

Sincere question, because honestly after looking today and trying to understand yesterdays row on her, what is it you would like him to be accountable for? What areas are getting your goat about him? I know nothing about him and his history and honestly beyond loads of memes and AI slop on twitter I am not getting to a point where I understand the true issues at hand?

That’s because his public statements made in the media and in previous hearings have been that he did not advise lockdowns, school closures etc and that is directly contradicted by his diary and emails.

Approximatley 1M Americans people died from Covid. There should be a full investigation in to its origin and specific to Fauci we should understand why he was privately open to lab origins and awareness of funded research of the Wuhan lab but publicly dismissed thay as a conspiracy and made significant effort to steer the media, investigators and public towards natural origin.

 

[Lost Mango]

Talk about uneducated

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Won't be long until someone pops up with the 'they were national socialists' so must have been left wing BS.

For the record Dr Eli David is a bit of a Musk-lite dingdong cheese:

Dr. Eli David is an Israeli artificial intelligence entrepreneur and prominent online commentator who transitioned from tech-focused content to become a leading, unfiltered voice on global politics, COVID-19 skepticism, and pro-Israel advocacy

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

Won't be long until someone pops up with the 'they were national socialists' so must have been left wing BS.

Someone who doesn't have an education on the origins of the party

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

That’s because his public statements made in the media and in previous hearings have been that he did not advise lockdowns, school closures etc and that is directly contradicted by his diary and emails.

Approximatley 1M Americans people died from Covid. There should be a full investigation in to its origin and specific to Fauci we should understand why he was privately open to lab origins and awareness of funded research of the Wuhan lab but publicly dismissed thay as a conspiracy and made significant effort to steer the media, investigators and public towards natural origin.

Hmmmmmmm interesting

 

[robp135]

Well off the top of my head - if I were fleeing war/persecution : I might not have enough time to go through a lengthy visa application process; I may not be able to travel to the applicable visa processing centre which might be hundreds of miles from my home or may even be in a different country (or I guess I just first apply for a visa to that country first?); I may not be able to provide a good enough reason for my visit (not having tried it this is an assumption but “sightseeing” just might not cut it); I may not have the necessary funds to demonstrate that I can support myself whilst visiting; I may not be able to show that I have reason to return home again after my trip.
But apart from that, sure, it’s easy.

A UK visitor visa application is done online and typically takes a few week to be issued. Those that have genuinely fled a wartorn situation will be in a safe neighbouring country already.

You are not required to disclose your asylum intent when applying for the visitor visa. You still have lawful status on arrival and the ability to claim asylum from inside the UK with full rights and support and far better credibility than arriving at on a boat without your passport.

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

A UK visitor visa application is done online and typically takes a few week to be issued. Those that have genuinely fled a wartorn situation will be ona safe neighbouring country.

You are not required to disclose your asylum intent when applying for the visitor visa. You still have lawful status on arrival and the ability to claim asylum from inside the UK with full rights and support and far better credibility than arriving at on a boat without your passport.

I just had an official look at the requirements and you would 100% not be eligible for a tourist visa as a genuine asylum seeker

 

[robp135]

I just had an official look at the requirements and you would 100% not be eligible for a tourist visa as a genuine asylum seeker

Correct. But you can apply for a tourist visa, arrive in the UK and then claim asylum and its not a criminal offense. Arriving illegally via a non official port of entry is and will count against you in an asylum hearing.

 

[Rafa87]

I feel like this might just be missing out the stress, worry, and general confusion and distress that comes with being an actual asylum seeker. I can’t imagine it’s as simple as popping on easy jet for a cheap flight from your native war zone to a tidy European city break where you chill out in an internet cafe getting your papers in order and filling out your visa application in case you get stopped at duty free.

An actual asylum seeker isn’t going to be applying for a tourist visa, they aren’t a tourist, they just want away from whoever’s trying to kill them.

I’m being flippant and tongue in cheek of course, but I feel if seeking asylum was as straightforward as it’s being made to sound, there would be no issue - there ARE issues because it’s actually a much more complex and difficult situation.

I’m saying this fully in the understanding and agreement that some are false claims and there should be better ways of dealing with those.

 

[robp135]

I feel like this might just be missing out the stress, worry, and general confusion and distress that comes with being an actual asylum seeker. I can’t imagine it’s as simple as popping on easy jet for a cheap flight from your native war zone to a tidy European city break where you chill out in an internet cafe getting your papers in order and filling out your visa application in case you get stopped at duty free.

An actual asylum seeker isn’t going to be applying for a tourist visa, they aren’t a tourist, they just want away from whoever’s trying to kill them.

I’m being flippant and tongue in cheek of course, but I feel if seeking asylum was as straightforward as it’s being made to sound, there would be no issue - there ARE issues because it’s actually a much more complex and difficult situation.

I’m saying this fully in the understanding and agreement that some are false claims and there should be better ways of dealing with those.

So the alternative is they travel across 2 continents, while also saving up the equivalent of an annual salary in cash and dump their passports into the French channel before arriving….

 

[Rafa87]

So the alternative is they travel across 2 continents, while also saving up the equivalent of an annual salary in cash and dump their passports into the French channel before arriving….

Not really what I said is it?

The point I’m making is that you don’t get round the issue of the small boat crossings by making it sound like asylum seeking is as easy as booking your family holiday.

It doesn’t have to be one or the other, the problem is this whole left/right nature now makes out that you’re either some beach patrolling racist, or standing at the borders helping anyone that wants a house in.

All I’m saying is there’s a reason many people use many routes into the country but one of the main ones is in many cases it isn’t as simple as just taking the time to apply for a tourist visa, heading off to a safe space and then working on your full asylum application - if we’re talking about genuine asylum seekers it isn’t just a straight forward stress free procedure with no danger, fuss or hurry involved.

Many of them also spend that amount of money on the boat crossings because of the misinformation and fear instilled in them… by those arranging the boat crossings.

 

[thfcsteff]

People are so blinded by their hatred of Trump and MAGA it allows a man like Fauci to be defended. The reason for so many hearings is that each time they have happened new evidence has been discovered which casts doubt on Faucis previous testimony.

In this case, his own private diary and emails, which had been subpoenaed, directly contradicted advice he gave to the public and to government officials during the pandemic so he was called back in. They also painted a disturbing picture of his behaviour even prior to Covid, where he was using government employees to solicite awards which often included a cash prizd. If you want to defend large cash awards to public figures from foreign companies go for it.

The reality is that anyone who has followed these hearings with an ounce of objectivity would see him for what he is. A man of almost limitless narcissism, obsessed by his own growing fame and adolation within the media. Prior hearing show a man desperate to squash any discussion on the origins of Covid that could lay blame as his feet.

Did Covid originate from the lab which studied noval respiratory Coronavirus in Wuhan? It may have, it may have not. But we can’t even collectively agree that Fauci tried to cover up the possibility of that, then the basic conditions do not exist to even begin an intelligent discussion.

You're blinded by your own incredible super-power to not only make assumptions on what people believe but also what someone is based on a narrow tract of information you form-fit to suit your own very, very strident prejudices. He was asked his professional opinion, he offered them and said repeatedly he was open to changing them if new evidence came to light.
IF he is covering something up, intelligent people will know that he is PART of a larger scale issue and group. Of course, until there are facts all you have is assumption.


You want an 'intelligent discussion' do some research into the history if bio weapons (beyond Annie Jacobsen's book which is also very good) and try hard to understand that one man is not behind everything.

BTW, did you pull the info from your post from the link in my post?

Another ASSUMPTION on your part is this word 'defending'. All I am interested in pointing out is that Fauci was not afraid of a few 'soundbites' but was legitimately concerned about the partisan behaviour towards him from Rand Paul and others. IF he is part of some cover-up like you say, it hasn't just come from him!!

Still, at least you admitted it is personal and that you see the man as some sort of Bono in his field (haven't seen the guy's name for a while personally, not the behaviour of a 'limitless narcissist')...the next time you use a single opinion piece as the basis of a post, credit them. In this case it was this one wasn't it?!!!
Nothing wrong with opinion pieces, but they are not news pieces.
https://eu.usatoday.com/story/opini...-covid-19-origin-fifth-amendment/91061895007/

Finally, among the many pieces being written about this, I found this interesting.
People slagging him off for noting in a personal diary what that level of fame and attention brings have no idea what it would be like. He expresses a degree of wide-eyed fascination, but he also expresses discomfort at the absurdity of it all. It would be a very natural reaction from someone decidedly not in a spotlight of that nature beforehand. Criticism of him based on that is just petty.

 

[thfcsteff]

I haven't followed it and this is a genuine question/observation I suppose.

Wasn't the advice given pretty much similar to the world? I mean I can't remember so you can likely tell me better, but we all really more of less all followed the same path with lockdowns etc etc etc.

As for the lab theories, I think thats massively complex given the US intelligence at the time and Trumps insistence that it started in a Lab

View attachment 23003

My question would be, how did both parties, the intelligence and Trump come up with their theories if there was a cover up? Or where they also lying? I think thats a fair question to ask

It is absolutely a complex question. Rand Paul going after the same guy over again won't get us close to an answer but will provide a witch to burn...

 

[thfcsteff]

Only macarons think Fauci is some sort of evil dude. It's a wild conspiracy. It's mostly tiny brain MAGA people

...and people who believe covid was a hoax...

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

It is absolutely a complex question. Rand Paul going after the same guy over again won't get us close to an answer but will provide a witch to burn...

Personally it seems that there is a search for someone to blame from reading bits today, which considering everyone followed the same plans globally that seems odd.

I get the need to find out the origin but Fauci isnt the blame for the outbreak, so trying to pinpoint Wuhan on him seems odd.

At best is seems like people with hurt feelings wanting retribution

 

[thfcsteff]

Personally it seems that there is a search for someone to blame from reading bits today, which considering everyone followed the same plans globally that seems odd.

I get the need to find out the origin but Fauci isnt the blame for the outbreak, so trying to pinpoint Wuhan on him seems odd.

At best is seems like people with hurt feelings wanting retribution

Agreed.

I only posted on this topic in the first place because Fauci taking the 5th was trivialised as being afraid of a few 'soundbites' when it is clearly much more than that.

 

[Glenda's Legs]

A UK visitor visa application is done online and typically takes a few week to be issued. Those that have genuinely fled a wartorn situation will be in a safe neighbouring country already.

You are not required to disclose your asylum intent when applying for the visitor visa. You still have lawful status on arrival and the ability to claim asylum from inside the UK with full rights and support and far better credibility than arriving at on a boat without your passport.

The application might be online. But having to visit a processing centre isn’t.
Having to provide all the required documentation pointed out above may not be possible for many who intend to claim asylum.

You said it was easy for anyone with a valid asylum claim to book a EUR 100 flight from Europe, travel to the UK, then claim asylum.
That’s not the case. It is not easy.
But you know that.

 

[LutonSpurs]

Can we be clear. For me to bring my mother in law over as a visitor I had to sponsor here. Spend £500. Show my proof earnings. Have her accomoation surveyed. She had to provide savings evidence too from there. You cannot get a visitor visa from Pakistan just like that you absolute ignorant fool. Why state things as fact when you haven't the foggiest what you are on about.

 

[robp135]

You're blinded by your own incredible super-power to not only make assumptions on what people believe but also what someone is based on a narrow tract of information you form-fit to suit your own very, very strident prejudices. He was asked his professional opinion, he offered them and said repeatedly he was open to changing them if new evidence came to light.
IF he is covering something up, intelligent people will know that he is PART of a larger scale issue and group. Of course, until there are facts all you have is assumption.


You want an 'intelligent discussion' do some research into the history if bio weapons (beyond Annie Jacobsen's book which is also very good) and try hard to understand that one man is not behind everything.

BTW, did you pull the info from your post from the link in my post?

Another ASSUMPTION on your part is this word 'defending'. All I am interested in pointing out is that Fauci was not afraid of a few 'soundbites' but was legitimately concerned about the partisan behaviour towards him from Rand Paul and others. IF he is part of some cover-up like you say, it hasn't just come from him!!

Still, at least you admitted it is personal and that you see the man as some sort of Bono in his field (haven't seen the guy's name for a while personally, not the behaviour of a 'limitless narcissist')...the next time you use a single opinion piece as the basis of a post, credit them. In this case it was this one wasn't it?!!!
Nothing wrong with opinion pieces, but they are not news pieces.
https://eu.usatoday.com/story/opini...-covid-19-origin-fifth-amendment/91061895007/

Finally, among the many pieces being written about this, I found this interesting.
People slagging him off for noting in a personal diary what that level of fame and attention brings have no idea what it would be like. He expresses a degree of wide-eyed fascination, but he also expresses discomfort at the absurdity of it all. It would be a very natural reaction from someone decidedly not in a spotlight of that nature beforehand. Criticism of him based on that is just petty.

Agreed.

I only posted on this topic in the first place because Fauci taking the 5th was trivialised as being afraid of a few 'soundbites' when it is clearly much more than that.

Lost Mango was the one who justified Fauci pleading the 5th as being afraid to give soundbites.