Lucas Bergvall

[MartyFunkhouser]

Where is the customary chart showing his passing capabilities compared to other players, I won’t believe anything without that key piece of evidence

On a serious note, his passing looks pretty good from the eye test

"Go get the chart"

 

[Bishop]

So do I. I don't think you need Tonali and Gallagher as Tonali is a Gallagher upgrade not some deep lying QB he's being taken for.

I could see us selling Gallagher next year if we make these signings. Hes a bit utility but not great at anything really.

 

[Bishop]

Where is the customary chart showing his passing capabilities compared to other players, I won’t believe anything without that key piece of evidence

On a serious note, his passing looks pretty good from the eye test

He is a good passer, he's just not the conductor some people think he is. Not because he lacks the technical quality, as his passing quality is of that standard it's more, it's not his play style.

So to be clear his passing ability is if that level, his passing instincts and play style is not though of a deep lying orchestrator.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Where is the customary chart showing his passing capabilities compared to other players, I won’t believe anything without that key piece of evidence

On a serious note, his passing looks pretty good from the eye test

He can pass
But he isn’t a passer of range
All players are great passers because it’s a key trait of making it
But some are better at the more complex, higher risk pasess
For me we need a Carrick type of player and the best fit I’ve seen is Wharton
Tonali isn’t that kind of a player but he is high volume, higher energy type (IMO)

 

[Raziel]

Lots more in full article

https://www.football.london/tottenh...as-bergvall-crazy-tottenham-transfer-34163887

Silence, training woes and a lost gem - Inside Lucas Bergvall's crazy Tottenham transfer situation​

From the outside the match with Postecoglou's successor Thomas Frank should have been perfect. Another Scandinavian and someone who would know Bergvall well.

Instead it just never really clicked. In contrast to his previous coaches, who had all looked to put an arm around the talented teenager, football.london understands the Dane did not speak to the young midfielder as much individually. Whether it was a ploy to keep Bergvall on his toes - those around some other young Spurs players speak of similar experiences - it instead created unease over whether the youngster was actually in Frank's plans or not.

The initial signs were that he was, starting four of the Dane's first six Premier League games, but he then had to settle for mostly a bench role or starring in the Champions League as he did on his competition debut against Villarreal.

Bergvall was in and out of Frank's plans and was left frustrated by playing everywhere but in his favoured number eight role, the position in which everyone expects him to blossom. Even in training he rarely found himself working on developing in that position as Frank would play him out on the wings at times or as a more advanced number 10, meaning nobody really seemed to know what he was.

There was a feeling from Bergvall's side that he wasn't being allowed to compete as a number eight and when Frank pushed for the signing of Conor Gallagher in January that only increased. Amid his growing frustration Spurs batted away interest from numerous clubs in the January transfer window with the likes of Liverpool, Chelsea and Aston Villa all showing interest.

Another ankle injury later that month meant he missed the end of the Dane's tenure and all but 45 minutes of Igor Tudor's brief stay in N17.

Things looked promising with De Zerbi's arrival and the Italian is said to have had a long chat with the young midfielder after their first training session together. Bergvall duly started his first game against Sunderland but then as the need for results became so important, De Zerbi turned to his experienced heads in Rodrigo Bentancur and Joao Palhinha, and even the out of favour Yves Bissouma, who was set to be released within a month.

 

[Finney Is Back]

So ... what? Do we make them go out on loan even if they don't want to (can we even do that?) or simply ignore their wishes? We've seen nothing substantive to suggest that RDZ wants rid of Vuskovic or Bergvall (or anyone else for that matter). One of the things really makes me laugh is that one of the reasons often given for the frequent turnover of managers is that "the club doesn't back them". Now it seems it's a bad idea to back the manager in case they leave.

No, we can’t.

 

[Raziel]

So ... what? Do we make them go out on loan even if they don't want to (can we even do that?) or simply ignore their wishes? We've seen nothing substantive to suggest that RDZ wants rid of Vuskovic or Bergvall (or anyone else for that matter). One of the things really makes me laugh is that one of the reasons often given for the frequent turnover of managers is that "the club doesn't back them". Now it seems it's a bad idea to back the manager in case they leave.

Bergvall (see article above) seems more an issue of the player needing to feel wanted vs. Vuskovic who obviously has probably always seen us as a stepping stone.

Again, it's two things, does the club rate him (if not, it's easy, get a decent price and move on). If we do, it's a conversation with him and his team, explain the situation (it's obvious the club needs to take drastic action to reverse the last two seasons), say we have long term plans, we will work with him to find an appropriate loan that will continue his development and we expect him to come back and play a part.

It's time for us to act like a professional club, someone's role should be to look after these young players, in club or out on loan, keep them feeling like they are part of the club.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Bergvall (see article above) seems more an issue of the player needing to feel wanted vs. Vuskovic who obviously has probably always seen us as a stepping stone.

Again, it's two things, does the club rate him (if not, it's easy, get a decent price and move on). If we do, it's a conversation with him and his team, explain the situation (it's obvious the club needs to take drastic action to reverse the last two seasons), say we have long term plans, we will work with him to find an appropriate loan that will continue his development and we expect him to come back and play a part.

It's time for us to act like a professional club, someone's role should be to look after these young players, in club or out on loan, keep them feeling like they are part of the club.

Vuskovic has probably barely even stayed in London yet. We should have kept hold of him last summer and used him instead of Dragusin and Davies

 

[robp135]

He is. Watch Saudi Sportswashing Machine. Bruno is the ballplayer and Tonali is the legs.

A good double pivot should have both. I'm just saying Tonali is a better version of what we have, not filling the gap

Tonali has a technical ability, and passing range and a level of calmness on the ball at times that is lightyears beyond Gallagher.

 

[BigChiv9]

Vuskovic has probably barely even stayed in London yet. We should have kept hold of him last summer and used him instead of Dragusin and Davies

He was offered that option but instead asked to go on loan so that he could play regularly. I know, I know we're their employer and they'll do what we say whether they like it or not - that always works in football

 

[robp135]

It’s also not accurate to say the RDZ is not willing to back young players. He has apparently told Tel he will be a key part of the squad. Gray doesn’t appear to be going anywhere and Kinsky is going to be the #1 GK next season.

 

[fernadez]

Where is the customary chart showing his passing capabilities compared to other players, I won’t believe anything without that key piece of evidence

On a serious note, his passing looks pretty good from the eye test

He is a good passer. So was Toby and so is Harry Kane. There's more to it then that. Tonali isn't a conductor. If everyone else is running, he's not still playing at a slower pace because he wants to, he's running as well.

He's much closer in playing style to Rice than Vitinha for example. Rice can pass, but he isn't a playmaker. Unless the definition has changed since the days of Pirlo, Juninho etc.

 

[elltrev]

Hojbjerg was one of the most progressive passers in Europe under RDZ.

To be fair he was always a progressive passer for us too.

 

[elltrev]

Really sad that Bergvall wants to leave. I’m in the camp of thinking he has the potential to be brilliant. And he was already doing well at PL level under Ange.

I know some will be enjoying the current owners’ ambition, but personally I value the extra connection that comes with bringing young players through.

 

[Bishop]

Really sad that Bergvall wants to leave. I’m in the camp of thinking he has the potential to be brilliant. And he was already doing well at PL level under Ange.

I know some will be enjoying the current owners’ ambition, but personally I value the extra connection that comes with bringing young players through.

Even young players who aren't actually from our youth system? I think someone like Kane who has genuinely come all the way through is someone you get the connection with.

 

[elltrev]

Even young players who aren't actually from our youth system? I think someone like Kane who has genuinely come all the way through is someone you get the connection with.

Yeah obviously even more with academy products, but I still get it with younger players or hidden gems.

 

[thfcsteff]

I think your expectations are way too high considering the track record of everyone involved. I don't think any chance we sign either of those players or we'll get anywhere above mid-table at best.

We're the worst team in the league at this point in time (with the promoted teams being unknowns, but having momentum) and don't have anyone in charge who knows what they are doing.

We shall see.
When it comes to THFC I generally try to look ahead and afford benefit of doubt wherever possible. I did with Daniel and transfers for 25 years! I do it with the club generally because I am a supporter/fan.
Realistically, if we got one of them it would signal a fine signing. Two? Yes, outrageous.

The thing which makes this move feel like it has to happen is that the manager does not appear to want to work to further develop the player (he is as we know an 'instant' manager) so essentially it becomes a case of either keeping him in mothballs on the expectation that DeZerbi will be gone in 15-18 months or sooner, or getting a good fee and emancipating a player we very much like.
This was the devil's deal we did with RDZ; keep us up and the house is yours. Which it is. Whether we like it or not. I am fully prepared to back it and see where we go; I am one of the few here who thinks that if we do give him what he wants, we could enjoy a very sharp and bizarrely successful season next season for a number of reasons.

You are sinking into rhetoric BTW IMO. We are statistically one of the worse teams in the league points-wise, however we all know it's been false based on a large number of turmoil factors.

 

[thfcsteff]

Specifically do you realise that Fernandes is a Jorge Mendes player? That never works out well for anyone, especially us (and Wolves)

Are you suggesting that we should just stay away from any player represented by Mendes? I think that is unrealistic.

 

[Raziel]

The thing which makes this move feel like it has to happen is that the manager does not appear to want to work to further develop the player (he is as we know an 'instant' manager) so essentially it becomes a case of either keeping him in mothballs on the expectation that DeZerbi will be gone in 15-18 months or sooner, or getting a good fee and emancipating a player we very much like.
This was the devil's deal we did with RDZ; keep us up and the house is yours. Which it is. Whether we like it or not. I am fully prepared to back it and see where we go; I am one of the few here who thinks that if we do give him what he wants, we could enjoy a very sharp and bizarrely successful season next season for a number of reasons.

not that we really have a choice, but do you?

Would you be ok if we sold Vuskovic, Gray, Bergvall, Sarr, Romero, Odobert, Dragusin Tel and brought in Tonali, Savino, Fernandes plus those already through the door?

I've always felt a manager has to have some give, some part of helping the club outside of just his success remit, not sure I'm a 100% comfortable with jetsoning all our youth for the immediate now .. how is that any different from a Conte/Jose play?

 

[robp135]

not that we really have a choice, but do you?

Would you be ok if we sold Vuskovic, Gray, Bergvall, Sarr, Romero, Odobert, Dragusin Tel and brought in Tonali, Savino, Fernandes plus those already through the door?

I've always felt a manager has to have some give, some part of helping the club outside of just his success remit, not sure I'm a 100% comfortable with jetsoning all our youth for the immediate now .. how is that any different from a Conte/Jose play?

There has been no mention of Gray going.
Tel's camp has come out and said he is an important part of the plans.
Odobert is injured and wont be back until the new year.

He is also not jetonising these players out. In the case of Vuskovic and Bergvall they are not prepared to compete for a 1st XI spot and they are not prepared to leave on loan. The only alternative is for the club to sell.