Thomas Frank - Head Coach

[harr1984]

Refreshingly honest imo, I think the players need to be reminded that they are not as good as they think they are.

I agree his comments are correct and have no issue with him saying so but wouldn't go as far as to say it's refreshingly honest.

If he was actually having a good season and we was in the top half still in with a shout of top 4 or 5 he wouldn't be coming out with this - he would be saying we should be aiming as high as we can. Sitting 14th in the league he doesn't really have a choice but to say this....

 

[Rafa87]

I think its quite small thinking. Whenever a coach starts making excuses he's struggling. Frank's job is to sell his players and the fans a vision, and to get us there. If he's having to dig himself out already, its not a good sign

Not small time thinking at all for me. It’s as simple as pointing out we play in the competition for the top 4 or 5 teams of each league despite clearly not being amongst the top 4 or 5 teams in our league. In fact, last season, we were the 17th best team in our league.

Tbf, Frank has reached that stage now where no matter what he says, someone will say it was wrong.

 

[Fatso Jason]

I agree his comments are correct and have no issue with him saying so but wouldn't go as far as to say it's refreshingly honest.

If he was actually having a good season and we was in the top half still in with a shout of top 4 or 5 he wouldn't be coming out with this - he would be saying we should be aiming as high as we can. Sitting 14th in the league he doesn't really have a choice but to say this....

For me it is refreshing and I believe it’s his honest assessment. Danes are normally pretty direct and I think this is him just being that.

 

[Bishop]

He'd be better telling us that some competent attack play is his ambition and is coming soon

He can tell us what he likes. His actions are what actually matter. I couldn't give a fudge what he says....

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

Ange’s football was never going to work here. He wasn’t doing anything novel or unique — I’ve seen the same ideas many times — and it requires key components he was simply never going to get at Spurs. A high-pressure, heavy-possession, intricate-passing system demands a calibre of player that just isn’t present in this squad.

Even last season I said we were basically trying to play Barcelona football with far inferior players. Give Ange City’s squad or Klopp’s Liverpool and I think he’d do very well. Those players have, at a minimum, the technique required to attempt his system, which realistically needs the very best of the elite to function at the highest level. Instead, he was trying to play intricate short-passing football with players like Johnson, Richarlison and Solanke. That was never going to work. The level of technique, intelligence and finesse simply isn’t there — and even Barcelona under Flick suffer huge exposure when their finishing drops, despite being man-to-man levels better than we are.

So for me, it wasn’t more depth that Ange needed. His starting XI was nowhere near what his system required. It needed a massive overhaul, with technically adept players across most starting positions. That was never going to happen, so what was actually required was an adaptation of his ideals. In truth, the only players who matched his requirements were Romero and VDV.

That’s why I’m not surprised by the lack of quality this season — it’s always been there. It's why you don’t see me tearing my hair out or overly bemoaning Frank yet, because what I’m seeing broadly matches what I’ve always thought. Ange’s kamikaze system simply masked those issues in an attacking sense. Without Kane and Son, we’re distinctly meh.

I understand the glass-half-full argument that things can just click, but ultimately it always comes down to player quality. A great coach can coax extraordinary things out of players with potential, but that baseline quality has to exist in the first place. No coach is turning Lamela into Messi or Dawson into Baresi.

Appreciate where you’re coming from, I just don’t agree. I’m not saying we would have won the league with Ange, but I think we would have done pretty well under him with the squad we have now. Solanke can easily play this system. Johnson was effective enough within it to be our top scorer. We finished 5th in his first season….

We just don’t agree and that’s fine.

 

[Raziel]

I mean… he’s being honest right?

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He's being an idiot. and at this point must be trying to get himself fired.

Just like Amorim with United, it doesn't matter the reality, at a certain caliber of club you can't say "oh well, we just aren't good enough". He was hired to get us back into CL, if not this year, next, so to ask the if we are a CL club, that's literally your fudging job mate.

We only have one club below us that isn't realistically in the relegation battle, we have one more fudging win than Leeds.

This guy is lost ..

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

I would think then losing every other week would make them realize this

They are professional footballers, they have no sense of reality, shame or responsibility, they are deities.

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

He's being an idiot. and at this point must be trying to get himself fired.

Just like Amorim with United, it doesn't matter the reality, at a certain caliber of club you can't say "oh well, we just aren't good enough". He was hired to get us back into CL, if not this year, next, so to ask the if we are a CL club, that's literally your fudging job mate.

We only have one club below us that isn't realistically in the relegation battle, we have one more fudging win than Leeds.

This guy is lost ..

Yeah get the Bournemouth guy in.

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

I mean… he’s being honest right?

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Actually find it quite strange how a lot of people here are reading this and thinking seemingly ‘yes! This is what we want to hear!’.

I think it’s the sort of thing top managers actually do, in that they defend their position, they deflect, and they put their narrative out there. So I get why he’s doing it.

I don’t really like it though. We were 5th the season before. We then won a European trophy despite an unprecedented injury crisis. We also have a much deeper squad than last season or the season before.

Maybe the players appreciate this sort of comment to take the pressure off of them and give them the time to really grasp what he wants. But maybe they’re also a bit wondering why the massive achievement that they carried out last year, forged through the bond of facing unprecedented circumstances, is now being talked down? I would honestly be surprised that the best players in our squad feel good about the guy from Brentford telling them that they aren’t actually at a CL club.

The Europa win gave the club the chance to push on. We did something amazing and got it out of a season that could have completely disintegrated. That the club feels like it isn’t pushing on is not down to anyone but the person currently in the seat.

What I would accept or find ok is Frank saying something like ‘I have an idea and a way of playing, and we’re at the start of a cycle, so there’s understandable ups and downs but the players are doing everything they can.’ Making out like everything that came before was luck, or naive, or whatever else, like he is coming in to fix and save everything…it just doesn’t sit right.

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

He's being an idiot. and at this point must be trying to get himself fired.

Just like Amorim with United, it doesn't matter the reality, at a certain caliber of club you can't say "oh well, we just aren't good enough". He was hired to get us back into CL, if not this year, next, so to ask the if we are a CL club, that's literally your fudging job mate.

We only have one club below us that isn't realistically in the relegation battle, we have one more fudging win than Leeds.

This guy is lost ..

I don’t think he’s trying to get fired, I think he’s doing what he thinks he needs to do, which is getting his narrative out there, reducing expectations, buying time and maybe reducing the pressure on the players.

But I agree it’s really misguided. I think it’s a really naive or wilfully ignorant way of reading and understanding the recent history of the club.

 

[Raziel]

Actually find it quite strange how a lot of people here are reading this and thinking seemingly ‘yes! This is what we want to hear!’.

I think it’s the sort of thing top managers actually do, in that they defend their position, they deflect, and they put their narrative out there. So I get why he’s doing it.

I don’t really like it though. We were 5th the season before. We then won a European trophy despite an unprecedented injury crisis. We also have a much deeper squad than last season or the season before.

Maybe the players appreciate this sort of comment to take the pressure off of them and give them the time to really grasp what he wants. But maybe they’re also a bit wondering why the massive achievement that they carried out last year, forged through the bond of facing unprecedented circumstances, is now being talked down? I would honestly be surprised that the best players in our squad feel good about the guy from Brentford telling them that they aren’t actually at a CL club.

The Europa win gave the club the chance to push on. We did something amazing and got it out of a season that could have completely disintegrated. That the club feels like it isn’t pushing on is not down to anyone but the person currently in the seat.

Wha I would accept or find ok is Frank saying something like ‘I have an idea and a way of playing, and we’re at the start of a cycle, so there’s understandable ups and downs but the players are doing everything they can.’ Making out like everything that came before was luck, or naive, or whatever else, like he is coming in to fix and save everything…it just doesn’t sit right.

Spurs fans love to brick on their own club, it's been so for a long time, some narrative comes along, they hop on board.

Jose/Conte a few others who never take accountability for brick do this, for a guy who this is a step up in his career to basically say we are not good enough while his previous club who appointed a set piece coach with zero experience is ahead of us on the table is a bit much.

Many top players have said it, never give a player/team an excuse not to perform, they will take it all day long.

His only answer needs to be, it's my job to fix it, it's my job to keep pushing us up the table (if you want to leave it to interpretation how high up the table, that's fine). But to ask if a club that has been in CL multiple times in last decade, been to a CL final, won a Europa league, wtf do you think our side is mate?

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

Spurs fans love to brick on their own club, it's been so for a long time, some narrative comes along, they hop on board.

Jose/Conte a few others who never take accountability for brick do this, for a guy who this is a step up in his career to basically say we are not good enough while his previous club who appointed a set piece coach with zero experience is ahead of us on the table is a bit much.

Many top players have said it, never give a player/team an excuse not to perform, they will take it all day long.

His only answer needs to be, it's my job to fix it, it's my job to keep pushing us up the table (if you want to leave it to interpretation how high up the table, that's fine). But to ask if a club that has been in CL multiple times in last decade, been to a CL final, won a Europa league, wtf do you think our side is mate?

Completely agreed, and I think the Jose / Conte comparison is apt. At least they could point to their success and say ‘the reason Spurs aren’t winning trophies is because you aren’t doing things my way’ and a lot of players would buy into that because the track record shows it.

The guy from Brentford coming in and saying this stuff though? There’s been hints of it the last few weeks, now he’s made it really explicit. He doesn’t have the pedigree to talk down the club. Our last two seasons would be his most successful two seasons as a manager if he had them.

He talked a lot about competing on all fronts and right now we’re not. He was supplied a deeper squad that allows him to rotate. I have all the sympathy for him being at the start of a cycle and needing time to get his ideas working. I have no sympathy for talking down what came before, as if his way is the infallible method that this club has not yet grasped. He simply doesn’t have the pedigree to make that sort of claim, nor the body of work so far to make it, nor the comms skills to get the buy in on his vision around it.

 

[Bishop]

And even then it's a vulnerable way of playing. Barca should have sailed into the Champions League final but because of the suicidal high line conspired to get themselves knocked out. That's continued to this season, some of the goals the concede are mirrors of our finest, they simply have better players than most over teams, as did Celtic as do Emirates Marketing Project. City regularly conceded really bad goals because of their defensive set up, but they are either consolations or they come back and just blow the other team away.

They were probably the best in Europe last season in reality but they were so exposed at times it just cost them. They had that you score 3 we will score 5 attitude and it usually works but not always and not against better teams who can setup to exploit the gaps they consistently give up to play that extremely football.

 

[Rafa87]

Actually find it quite strange how a lot of people here are reading this and thinking seemingly ‘yes! This is what we want to hear!’.

I think it’s the sort of thing top managers actually do, in that they defend their position, they deflect, and they put their narrative out there. So I get why he’s doing it.

I don’t really like it though. We were 5th the season before. We then won a European trophy despite an unprecedented injury crisis. We also have a much deeper squad than last season or the season before.

Maybe the players appreciate this sort of comment to take the pressure off of them and give them the time to really grasp what he wants. But maybe they’re also a bit wondering why the massive achievement that they carried out last year, forged through the bond of facing unprecedented circumstances, is now being talked down? I would honestly be surprised that the best players in our squad feel good about the guy from Brentford telling them that they aren’t actually at a CL club.

The Europa win gave the club the chance to push on. We did something amazing and got it out of a season that could have completely disintegrated. That the club feels like it isn’t pushing on is not down to anyone but the person currently in the seat.

What I would accept or find ok is Frank saying something like ‘I have an idea and a way of playing, and we’re at the start of a cycle, so there’s understandable ups and downs but the players are doing everything they can.’ Making out like everything that came before was luck, or naive, or whatever else, like he is coming in to fix and save everything…it just doesn’t sit right.

I think the “the guy from Brentford” thing is pretty disrespectful. If I’m honest, a bunch of players thinking that of their coach would mean they have let their one piece of success go to their heads.

I also think the EL win has massively inflated people’s idea of how good this squad is without taking into account the context of that win.

 

[Gazza]

I’m thinking we will be losing to palace tomorrow as I’m quite a positive person when it comes to Tottenham matters. Do we have to give Frank a good crack at the January window or continue being a basket case club and look to replace him? I’ll not sure what the alternatives are but we have almost no expectations this year. But I’m not seeing any improvements even with the players that we have got in

 

[harr1984]

Actually find it quite strange how a lot of people here are reading this and thinking seemingly ‘yes! This is what we want to hear!’.

I think it’s the sort of thing top managers actually do, in that they defend their position, they deflect, and they put their narrative out there. So I get why he’s doing it.

I don’t really like it though. We were 5th the season before. We then won a European trophy despite an unprecedented injury crisis. We also have a much deeper squad than last season or the season before.

Maybe the players appreciate this sort of comment to take the pressure off of them and give them the time to really grasp what he wants. But maybe they’re also a bit wondering why the massive achievement that they carried out last year, forged through the bond of facing unprecedented circumstances, is now being talked down? I would honestly be surprised that the best players in our squad feel good about the guy from Brentford telling them that they aren’t actually at a CL club.

The Europa win gave the club the chance to push on. We did something amazing and got it out of a season that could have completely disintegrated. That the club feels like it isn’t pushing on is not down to anyone but the person currently in the seat.

What I would accept or find ok is Frank saying something like ‘I have an idea and a way of playing, and we’re at the start of a cycle, so there’s understandable ups and downs but the players are doing everything they can.’ Making out like everything that came before was luck, or naive, or whatever else, like he is coming in to fix and save everything…it just doesn’t sit right.

That's fair. For me it's more a case of fair enough him saying that considering the position we are in. If we was 6th or 7th a couple of points off a CL place he wouldn't be saying we aren't a CL club would he, what sort of message would that send And where we are is in part at the very least if his making, but this is the most logical response for where we are.

That being said, agree with what he said or not I don't see it as that big a deal. It's an assessment that most of us would say is fair of where the club are.....

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

I think the “the guy from Brentford” thing is pretty disrespectful. If I’m honest, a bunch of players thinking that of their coach would mean they have let their one piece of success go to their heads.

I also think the EL win has massively inflated people’s idea of how good this squad is without taking into account the context of that win.

The guy from Brentford is telling a squad of players that have played and won at a higher level than he has managed that they aren’t actually a CL club. I think it’s a relevant and fair phrase to be honest.

What do you mean by the context of the EL win?

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

That's fair. For me it's more a case of fair enough him saying that considering the position we are in. If we was 6th or 7th a couple of points off a CL place he wouldn't be saying we aren't a CL club would he, what sort of message would that send And where we are is in part at the very least if his making, but this is the most logical response for where we are.

That being said, agree with what he said or not I don't see it as that big a deal. It's an assessment that most of us would say is fair of where the club are.....

I agree with you that if he was 6th or 7th he wouldn’t be saying it. And I think whether it’s fair comes down to whether you think last season was a true reflection of the quality of the squad or whether it was an aberration.

I learn on the side of it being an aberration. Because either the Europa win is a HUUUUUGE achievement to win it despite having the 17th best squad in the league. Or it’s a good achievement to win because we were favourites, but can only beat what’s in front of us.

If we were clear favourites, then the squad can’t be that bad. If we’re the 17th best side in the league, then it’s one of the biggest achievements of all time.

 

[Rafa87]

The guy from Brentford is telling a squad of players that have played and won at a higher level than he has managed that they aren’t actually a CL club. I think it’s a relevant and fair phrase to be honest.

What do you mean by the context of the EL win?

Yeah see I usually enjoy your posts as they seem reasonable and balanced and understanding. It’s just a personal thing, I wouldn’t refer to Frank as the ‘guy from Brentford’ in the same way I didn’t refer to Pochettino as “the guy from Southampton”. I just think that phrase says a lot, you can not like the way things are looking without saying things like that about the guy who manages the club. Is he the right fit? Who knows, not me after 18 games.

The context of the EL win is that it was the first year without Champions league teams dropping into it. The best team we played were Galatasaray who could have put 7 at least past us, luckily we played them at the time we did. The best ‘on paper’ teams were either United or Frankfurt depending on how you view Frankfurts recent EL success against United’s history I guess.

Whenever you point out the EL run we had people say you didn’t enjoy it, or that you’re playing it down. I’m not, I LOVED our EL win, it’s the best night in the time I’ve supported the club. I just however also appreciate the nuance of the competition we won and use that to evaluate this current team. Would they have been capable of winning it with CL teams in it? Who knows. You can only beat who’s in front of you, and Ange got us over the line, so all the credit to him for that, he ended that trophy drought.

I’m chuffed to bits that we won it, but I don’t think it suddenly means we suddenly have a brilliant champions league level team. I think Frank has been very accurate in saying that we aren’t at that top four or five level - and let’s also give a bit of responsibility to the players here, if they don’t like that he said it, rather than crying into their bank notes about the mean ‘man from Brentford’ they could always prove him wrong couldn’t they, look at their league form over the last year or two - these world beaters of Europe have basically been in close to relegation form for a lot of it.

I’m neither completely for Frank nor against him. I think this team should be higher than it is, but I also appreciate what he’s working with and I’m not going to use the sticks that defended Ange to beat Frank. I’ll see where he is after 38 games, and go from there and I’ll show the bloke a bit of respect for even trying until he’s told he isn’t doing it anymore.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Not small time thinking at all for me. It’s as simple as pointing out we play in the competition for the top 4 or 5 teams of each league despite clearly not being amongst the top 4 or 5 teams in our league. In fact, last season, we were the 17th best team in our league.

Tbf, Frank has reached that stage now where no matter what he says, someone will say it was wrong.

Im completely on the fence. Id love him to step up and show some metal. But another anemic performance or two and i'll be fully Poch in. Its right in the balance for him now, and statements like this matter enormously