Thomas Frank - Head Coach

[Raziel]

I used that team because it's a comparison of where we want to be and team that played the football we want to see.

I'm not particularly interested honestly in getting a team of a top 6 standing. In reality I want a side that title challenging and fudge it title winning so that the standard I'm interested in comparing too.

I agree we've underperformed but even if we performed to our level, that level is still too low imo.

Unlike

Don't disagree

- the team is 2-3 Elite players away from that level (and that's assuming one or two of Gray, Bergvall, Xavi make the step up)

But the immediate evaluation is are we getting par for the players we have, if we aren't we need to discuss why, because imo, in addition to that quality addition, we need a better manager (and we don't want Johnson type buys if the guy we buy him for is gone at end of season)

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

No, I'm not forgetting those. I thought against Brighton we played really well and then dropped off instead of carrying on attacking the way we had in the first half. Palace and Ipswich I think were after European games against opponents having a full week to prepare, where our really small squad was exposed. Right at the start of that season I said numerous times on here that we had made a big mistake going into the season with such a small, inexperienced squad.

Heaven forbid this lower mid table squad full of average players lost of a couple of games in a highly competitive English Premier League!

 

[Silly McSilly Face]

What performances do you think were great? We gubbed City but we did that again this season.

One of my observations during Ange's reign was that for a reported style of football that was free flowing and attacking, we wasn't. We had moments where we'd build a nice attack at speed, but I can't really recall too many 90 min performances?

It was mostly memories of those first 10 games i think. We really struggled to be consistent in terms of both results and performances after that. Partly that injury Maddison suffered against Chelsea. Maddison was unreal those first 10 games of Ange's reign. Absolutely ran the show. Was never quite the same after that.

 

[glasgowspur]

I’ll take the back end because it is an interesting question…I’ll go team first. Then squad.

Porro would get into Poch’s side
Romero would get into Poch’s side
I’d argue that VdV would too

Simons gets into that squad
Deki gets into that squad (albeit unfair because he is not fit)
Bergvall gets into that squad
Gray gets into that squad
Kudus gets into that squad
Udogie

Based on the fact we signed the likes of Janssen and Nkoudou, Richy gets into that squad and possibly Odobert (possibly)

So, a 2016/17 Poch Spurs could have been…

Lloris

Porro
Romero
Vertonghen
Rose

Dembele
Wanyama (maybe Bergvall)

Son
Eriksen
Alli

Kane


It’s a fun game to play, especially with what was a wonderful side that should’ve won the title.

Personally l'd keep Toby and have vdv on the left instead of rose and walker on the right instead of Porro.
Can you imagine walker RB and vdv lb, with dier dropping in to cover when they go marauding.
Bring on Vic for mousa to close games out.

 

[glasgowspur]

I think you’re being short-sighted and not recognising the coach involved.

Poch would absolutely have improved Porro in the defensive area. same with Romero. If you cannot see how Poch would’ve adored Romero, then I cannot help you. Romero is a better player than Alderweireld, who looked better than he was precisely because he had Poch as manager. As for Walker, Poch was happy enough to sell him whether we agree or not. Porro would again have been a player that would’ve thrived under Poch’s tutelage, and would certainly have been better than Trippier. Let’s hope we don’t get our Pedro pocket picked by Pep (word is he is sniffing for him to return)…

I will concede that Bergvall over Wanyama is funny (different profiles and mischief-making on my part) however Bergvall as a replacement for Dembele when hurt would certainly have been something I think Poch would’ve enthusiastically entertained.

Of course you won’t agree because you think we have a bunch of carthorses.
There is no argument that this squad is not Poch 2016/17, but it is far better than what is being said IMO…

It's not the 16/17 squad, but put into a system by a manager who is not rigid like Frank and there is development there.
I know I should not do myself but I can't help but look at this squad and think it's built for Poch.

 

[Mikey10]

Our squad has more depth this season, that is an undeniable fact.

‘…an undeniable fact.’

Evening, President Trump!

 

[billyiddo]

It's not the 16/17 squad, but put into a system by a manager who is not rigid like Frank and there is development there.
I know I should not do myself but I can't help but look at this squad and think it's built for Poch.

Despite the song Poch isn't a magician and he'd be getting ground out by the fans soon enough

 

[Silly McSilly Face]

If we had wanted a 'Frank' type manager, i.e. (kind of) 'mid-table proven' at PL level then my choice was Marco Silva, who I think has done just as good a job as Frank but has a lot more experience and managed far more clubs.

Not convinced by Silva. If we wanted a Frank style manager we should have stuck with Nuno and backed him properly.

 

[Silly McSilly Face]

It's not the 16/17 squad, but put into a system by a manager who is not rigid like Frank and there is development there.
I know I should not do myself but I can't help but look at this squad and think it's built for Poch.

What are we doing here, a best XI between the current squad and 16/17 squad? Here it is:
Lloris
Walker Alderweireld Vertonghen Rose
Wanyama Dembele
Alli Eriksen Son
Kane

 

[Finney Is Back]

Not convinced by Silva. If we wanted a Frank style manager we should have stuck with Nuno and backed him properly.

But we didn’t…. We sacked him just like we sacked everyone else… and then having sacked Ange and seemingly having no real pulling power to get one of the top managers in, we got in Frank. Who I don’t think is the best of that mid table, lowish earning, no real competition to get them, type of manager that was our sweet spot.

 

[metalgear]

"pulling power" is what we don't have much of right now

yeah Europa Cup but can we get CL next year after finishing 17th?

we need to build ourselves into consistent top 6 in the league to re-establish any semblance of pulling power

But we didn’t…. We sacked him just like we sacked everyone else… and then having sacked Ange and seemingly having no real pulling power to get one of the top managers in, we got in Frank. Who I don’t think is the best of that mid table, lowish earning, no real competition to get them, type of manager that was our sweet spot.

 

[Mrs Vert]

This club is in a huge transition from the top to coaches. And new people just joining. If more people are set to leave with the window opening soon......its gonna get even more bumpy
Its just such a mess its farcical, that now its just beyond amazing and amusing.

The fact the most people would only take 2 players normally vdv or rom to be first team for other teams. And berg for one for the future. Tells you all you need to know about our "great squad"

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

But he doesn't actually start for his country, and his country are crap these days with poor options up front. Its an irrelevant point.

On the topic of style, for clarity i've said multiple times I believe someone else can have us playing more progressively, so by no means do I think this current style is the only way we can play. Just last season, Ange had us in a different setup. What i'm actually saying is Frank, Ange, Pep, Klopp or Jesus himself isn't going to make this average group of players capable of playing open, progressive football effectively and to a high degree. For that and that is what I want we need to improve the quality of the players because as I said earlier which one of these guys is getting into our 2015-2017 teams?

I think we have a deeper squad than 16-17, (as well as compared to last season) we have an equal defence and a worse attack.

I go back to the point that Maresca can make a Championship team play progressive football, and then he can implement his style at Chelsea pretty quickly too. If Maresca was our manager with this exact squad, we’d see this squad playing in a vastly different way, and I would venture that it’s very likely with at least equal or better results.

I don’t think anyone is saying that we have a title challenging squad, and I see plenty of people willing to say that Frank should have time. But this idea that no manager could take this squad full of internationals and make them play better football than what we’re seeing, I just think is silly.

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

I think Poch would’ve quickly improved several of these players to a standard he’d have chosen for the first 11. I think Romero is a fine example of this, and am baffled by people who don’t see that as a clear possibility. I liked Toby, but if you gave Romero that side and manager, he’d have been a world beater.

Agree with your assessment of the Poch said versus this as well as what Poch would do for these players. I too am baffled by the under rating of Romero here. The idea that it’s laughable that he is better than Toby just shows why these debates are being had. If you think that, then yeah you probably do think that this squad is mid table average and that Frank can do no more.

 

[thfcsteff]

Despite the song Poch isn't a magician and he'd be getting ground out by the fans soon enough

True, he would be getting ground out by the fans, the same fans who could not recognise what he did in season 2018/19 with no money, no signings, injuries and a squad wearing out. Despite all that, a CL Final and top 4 (again). His reward? Not even three months of average results before the peanut gallery were in and telling us he was done and needed to be replaced as opposed to given a chance to rebuild again..

...sorry, was that my inside voice?!!!!

 

[thfcsteff]

Can only judge on what we have seen of them - maybe Poch would have improved their game, maybe he wouldn't but right now I'd swap all 3 for the players from 16/17 in a heartbeat

Mate.
Right now, the first person in this parrish I'd swap for 16/17 is the manager.

 

[thfcsteff]

What are we doing here, a best XI between the current squad and 16/17 squad? Here it is:
Lloris
Walker Alderweireld Vertonghen Rose
Wanyama Dembele
Alli Eriksen Son
Kane

I accept it is hard to argue against the best side we've had in 15 years. And the best manager since 1978-84...especially as this side was proven. However some of the views of Romero I've seen are comical. He is absolutely Toby's equal in terms of influence, not as good in the air but better on the floor.

 

[thfcsteff]

What Poch did was put Wanyama and Dembele in front of that defence which meant nothing got through!

Don't negate Dier's importance in being able to play there and at CB when necessary. He was a very important part of that whole set-up.

 

[thfcsteff]

‘…an undeniable fact.’

Evening, President Trump!

Sorry my friend, a joke too far for me (albeit not intended I know)...for clarity, this season's squad is stronger than last season's. It is a fact. We can go man for man if you want?

 

[Bishop]

I think we have a deeper squad than 16-17, (as well as compared to last season) we have an equal defence and a worse attack.

I go back to the point that Maresca can make a Championship team play progressive football, and then he can implement his style at Chelsea pretty quickly too. If Maresca was our manager with this exact squad, we’d see this squad playing in a vastly different way, and I would venture that it’s very likely with at least equal or better results.

I don’t think anyone is saying that we have a title challenging squad, and I see plenty of people willing to say that Frank should have time. But this idea that no manager could take this squad full of internationals and make them play better football than what we’re seeing, I just think is silly.

But that's not my claim nor is it a claim I've really seen from anyone so I'm not sure why you are countering it?

I just don't think we are as good as you think we are or have the potential you seem to think we possess but that is a different discussion.