Thomas Frank - Head Coach

[Bishop]

Just a thought, last season when we went to parking the bus in the EL there was a theory postulated that as there was no way ange would ever countenance such tactics that the senior players had taken it on themselves to ignore Angeball.
I've seen a couple of people say that either Frank's tactics are not working or the players aren't following them.
Do we have a player issue?

I said it at the time and I still stand by the idea that I believe the players just ignored what Ange said in the EL latter stages and decided to low block themselves.

 

[Grays_1890]

And not one person has mentioned us being 9th in the league as a form of complaint, or the fact we lost to Arsenal etc. The only complaint has been the football (or lack of it)....

Ok, then not sure of the overall point because the comparison is off for me at least, because I much prefer us trying to wek out the points TBH. The style is poor to fair in some games, I expect those to improve when others return. Last season I expected more grit in the league

 

[harr1984]

Ok, then not sure of the overall point because the comparison is off for me at least, because I much prefer us trying to wek out the points TBH. The style is poor to fair in some games, I expect those to improve when others return. Last season I expected more grit in the league

And when the style improves we will all be enjoying it and praising it. But when we play crap after the game posters are going to say it was crap, I'm not sure what is meant to be said or why it's a big deal to say as such? And it only keeps being repeated because game after game it's been negative lack of imagination football....

 

[Bedfordspurs]

No worries - The point was, with a weaker squad under Ange compared to what we have now when I said the squad wasn't all that and a lot over rate it I was told it is good enough for top 6.

Now magically we've improved the squad yet all of a sudden our expectations should be top ten and with this set of players we can't expect any semblance of decent football and this long ball football is what is to be expected? Nah.

I don't care if Frank advocates come here and say it will improve etc that's cool, I still hope it will. But the excuses for what have been served up are cringeworthy, the football has been crap for almost all of the season so far - there's no getting away from that fact regardless of what we all think/hope he will do given time....

People seem to think we haven’t improved the squad it seems
Seen that repeated more and more online
But even if we haven’t … why is the football so basic.
Listening to a pod earlier then talk about his first game vs PSG where the players buy in was clear to see vs the last few games where objectively it looks like the players don’t buy in or don’t know what the plan is

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Ok, then not sure of the overall point because the comparison is off for me at least, because I much prefer us trying to wek out the points TBH. The style is poor to fair in some games, I expect those to improve when others return. Last season I expected more grit in the league

It’s the returning bit I just don’t get
No squad is ever fully fit
He hasn’t had the aforementioned players since he has been here so his job, as leader is to come up with a way to try to win games without those players.
Against every top half team it’s been an issue apart from city (credit where it’s due)
Brighton we played well by all a accounts but the key there was getting Xavi on (I didn’t see much of that game at all)
Every game we should be trying to win with one plan or another. Every game
I as a fan haven’t seen the plan of how we will do that in some games and there is a reason why we’re creating so little for the “inferior” players to miss

 

[harr1984]

Player composition has always been the biggest stumbling block, that was the case under Ange, as it was Conte as it will be with Frank. I don't know why we as a fan base go round and round in circles just refusing to see what's right in front of our eyes. It's fudging boring.

Sack Frank and bring in Glasner and the same boring conversations will happen because unless we actually buy a higher standard of player who suits the game plan of whichever coach we currently have,history will just repeat and repeat and repeat.

Player quality is the single biggest decider of a teams quality, not the coach, not the stadium, not the training facilities and not the flipping team bus. The players!

Yeah I've been with you all the way for a couple of years with where the quality of this squad lies. But I can't accept with this crop of players they aren't capable of more than long ball football. I do agree to properly get somewhere player quality needs to improve regardless of manager. Like you say that's why we constantly go round in circles and I fear will do for years to come yet because I don't believe the Lewis family are going to change all of a sudden....

 

[Grays_1890]

It’s the returning bit I just don’t get
No squad is ever fully fit
He hasn’t had the aforementioned players since he has been here so his job, as leader is to come up with a way to try to win games without those players.
Against every top half team it’s been an issue apart from city (credit where it’s due)
Brighton we played well by all a accounts but the key there was getting Xavi on (I didn’t see much of that game at all)
Every game we should be trying to win with one plan or another. Every game
I as a fan haven’t seen the plan of how we will do that in some games and there is a reason why we’re creating so little for the “inferior” players to miss

You think all sides maintain the same levels with horrific injuries? The only one that does is Arsneal because they have double depth.

Honestly mate I think your expecting utopia

 

[glasgowspur]

I said it at the time and I still stand by the idea that I believe the players just ignored what Ange said in the EL latter stages and decided to low block themselves.

Shouldn't we be better at what Frank is trying to do then?
Or have they abandoned what he wants to do as well?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

You think all sides maintain the same levels with horrific injuries? The only one that does is Arsneal because they have double depth.

Honestly mate I think your expecting utopia

These injuries are from before this season in the main
He has been here 5/6 months and if he can’t adapt to who he doesn’t have … he has a huge issue

And again.. when Ange had injuries it wasn’t an excuse. He was told by many fans to adapt to what he has. Why play attack when you need to cover your weakened defence … which was true and why he ain’t here.

You deal with the hand you have and find a way to win. That is the job

 

[Grays_1890]

These injuries are from before this season in the main
He has been here 5/6 months and if he can’t adapt to who he doesn’t have … he has a huge issue

And again.. when Ange had injuries it wasn’t an excuse. He was told by many fans to adapt to what he has. Why play attack when you need to cover your weakened defence … which was true and why he ain’t here.

You deal with the hand you have and find a way to win. That is the job

He didn't adapt and lost buckets of games, that was the moan

I will keep it as simple as I can, I don't expect us to be stylistically the same team with the injuries as we might be without

I do expect us to be able to be robust and pick up points though.

We are not stylistically great but we are picking up points.

That's it for me, in the long and the short.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Shouldn't we be better at what Frank is trying to do then?
Or have they abandoned what he wants to do as well?

I don’t think any players wants to play that way unless they are in a lesser club

It’s counter intuitive to why you play football. It’s about kicking it in the onion bag… between the jumpers…. at the cone… or whatever the goal is

Arsenal didn’t adjust their set up because we went 8 men defence l, they just played the way they are coached and clearly get it… even the new guys playing in their first NLD or even those making their debut

 

[Bishop]

No worries - The point was, with a weaker squad under Ange compared to what we have now when I said the squad wasn't all that and a lot over rate it I was told it is good enough for top 6.

Now magically we've improved the squad yet all of a sudden our expectations should be top ten and with this set of players we can't expect any semblance of decent football and this long ball football is what is to be expected? Nah.

I don't care if Frank advocates come here and say it will improve etc that's cool, I still hope it will. But the excuses for what have been served up are cringeworthy, the football has been crap for almost all of the season so far - there's no getting away from that fact regardless of what we all think/hope he will do given time....

Ange played attacking football, that is 100% to his credit. I said it at the time and many times since I think he deserves a lot of credit for getting the squad he had scoring the goals the did because frankly they were brick imo, but he did this partly because the way for us to score or create chances was due to the suicide line.

This is a post I wrote on the 9th of May but I know I wrote a more in-depth analysis at some point regarding it.

Yeah I've been with you all the way for a couple of years with where the quality of this squad lies. But I can't accept with this crop of players they aren't capable of more than long ball football. I do agree to properly get somewhere player quality needs to improve regardless of manager. Like you say that's why we constantly go round in circles and I fear will do for years to come yet because I don't believe the Lewis family are going to change all of a sudden....

9 Mar 2025
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#5,190
ricky2tricky4city said:
Do you think that the calibre of player we have could be attaining better results in a different system?

Yeah, a more safety conscious coach could definitely have garnered better results, although I think our goals scored would be lower, maybe significantly. It's the suicide football that'd gets us the goals but a more pragmatic coach would likely eeke out a few more wins by a single goal. So there is always some give and take in these things.

I think this is where we are now, we have the more safety conscious coach who isn't willing to play the suicide football but who also if we are being fair doesn't have the same degree of attacking coaching proficiency as the last guy and we are seeing what happens when set out with different bias with these players.

I agree I'd like to see a more progressive approach and I don't think it helps playing 3 CBs plus Palhinha, or in numerous previous matches playing Palhina paired with Bentancur. Or putting Xavi out on the left, playing Spence at LB etc there are lots of things I think he could have done differently to get a more pleasant playing performances but ultimately for me I guess I kind see why he doesn't and it most likely is because he doesn't think he can get them playing that way whilst not also being ridiculously exposed.

Time will tell if that's an accurate assesment and I think he is going to need to be more progressive to win over a section of the fan base but he has to do it and still win which is where I think he's going to struggle.

I don't really look at our midfield options and see a way for a balanced team to progressively play the ball from midfield. Our DM is a crab, the person next to him is a worse version of that. If we go for the other options not one of them is what I would consider a passer. I just don't really see how you build a quality possession side with the components we have. Maybe I'm totally wrong and Frank will turn that side of things around but I can't see it personally. He needs a CM rather desperately it turns out (one of my priorities in the summer just gone).

 

[Bedfordspurs]

He didn't adapt and lost buckets of games, that was the moan

I will keep it as simple as I can, I don't expect us to be stylistically the same team with the injuries as we might be without

I do expect us to be able to be robust and pick up points though.

We are not stylistically great but we are picking up points.

That's it for me, in the long and the short.

Sorry but your really hoping that the football will get better but we don’t have a point in reference to hang that hat on
I’d expect an elite coach to deal why the hand he has as that is ultimately the job

 

[Grays_1890]

Sorry but your really hoping that the football will get better but we don’t have a point in reference to hang that hat on
I’d expect an elite coach to deal why the hand he has as that is ultimately the job

Hahaahha mate, you want a point of reference in 18 games when the guys doing a fairly ok job.

The point being if he doesn't improve in time with better players then I will judge

You carry on mate, thats not a dig, but this is creeping into the realms of being told how to feel when I've been clear.

Peace bro

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Ange played attacking football, that is 100% to his credit. I said it at the time and many times since I think he deserves a lot of credit for getting the squad he had scoring the goals the did because frankly they were brick imo, but he did this partly because the way for us to score or create chances was due to the suicide line.

This is a post I wrote on the 9th of May but I know I wrote a more in-depth analysis at some point regarding it.







I think this is where we are now, we have the more safety conscious coach who isn't willing to play the suicide football but who also if we are being fair doesn't have the same degree of attacking coaching proficiency as the last guy and we are seeing what happens when set out with different bias with these players.

I agree I'd like to see a more progressive approach and I don't think it helps playing 3 CBs plus Palhinha, or in numerous previous matches playing Palhina paired with Bentancur. Or putting Xavi out on the left, playing Spence at LB etc there are lots of things I think he could have done differently to get a more pleasant playing performances but ultimately for me I guess I kind see why he doesn't and it most likely is because he doesn't think he can get them playing that way whilst not also being ridiculously exposed.

Time will tell if that's an accurate assesment and I think he is going to need to be more progressive to win over a section of the fan base but he has to do it and still win which is where I think he's going to struggle.

I don't really look at our midfield options and see a way for a balanced team to progressively play the ball from midfield. Our DM is a crab, the person next to him is a worse version of that. If we go for the other options not one of them is what I would consider a passer. I just don't really see how you build a quality possession side with the components we have. Maybe I'm totally wrong and Frank will turn that side of things around but I can't see it personally. He needs a CM rather desperately it turns out (one of my priorities in the summer just gone).

Ange ball when playing the first choice defence had a very decent point return. He didn’t have them enough as we know
What Frank could have done was add that DM but still play a version of it, having that extra covering man
I mean that’s super simplistic of course but that’s a quick tweak that in theory would address some of the issues that we could see
Instead it’s gone very basic and the players actually look bored
I hoped and still do that he will realise that.
We’re not playing low block in games to be fair (last game expception)
But we’re also not passing the ball forwards in any controlled or planned manner. It’s almost as if they haven’t been coached which I think is the opposite. I think they have been over-coached and are confused

 

[Bishop]

Shouldn't we be better at what Frank is trying to do then?
Or have they abandoned what he wants to do as well?

I dunno, I think it was desperation defending. It wasn't anything particularly structured we just sat back with 10 men and threw ourselves at every ball and that was against relatively low quality opposition.

I think Frank wants a solid base first and a possessional structure in the middle after but is failing to achieve this. Whether that's due to poor coaching as some feel or lacking the player types and quality (how I feel) who knows. I don't think Frank's actual intention is brick out games low blocking every team we play and hoping for a single deflected goal to be the winner. I mean that's not even a strategy.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Hahaahha mate, you want a point of reference in 18 games when the guys doing a fairly ok job.

The point being if he doesn't improve in time with better players then I will judge

You carry on mate, thats not a dig, but this is creeping into the realms of being told how to feel when I've been clear.

Peace bro

It’s not personal and we’re being respectful to each other which is all I ever ask of any engagement

The results have been mixed but IMO haven’t reflected the games a lot of the time

Bournemouth should have been a spanking
Monaco the same
Everton wasn’t a 3 nil game and out keeper was MOTM for me (it’s also his job)
Bodo bossed us
So did Villarreal but that was a poor game
We have also had deserved wins
I think we were unlucky too vs Villa

 

[Bishop]

Ange ball when playing the first choice defence had a very decent point return. He didn’t have them enough as we know
What Frank could have done was add that DM but still play a version of it, having that extra covering man
I mean that’s super simplistic of course but that’s a quick tweak that in theory would address some of the issues that we could see
Instead it’s gone very basic and the players actually look bored
I hoped and still do that he will realise that.
We’re not playing low block in games to be fair (last game expception)
But we’re also not passing the ball forwards in any controlled or planned manner. It’s almost as if they haven’t been coached which I think is the opposite. I think they have been over-coached and are confused

I don't think you can play a more controlled version of Ange ball (+DM) and get results. Ange ball requires the entire team to be pushed high up the field to compress the space and allow the pressure to tell. Then it needs the numbers in and around the goal to help create overloads and second guess the defenders. All of that basically requires a very high line which is counter intuitive to Frank's primary (and very valid) concern, making this team more solid.

I would like more balance but I kind of accept that just playing a more controlled version of Ange ball probably doesn't really work because you know I've been saying for years the quality of our attacker is poop and we didn't score due to their quality but instead it was due to the system and primarily the overloads it created. Take away that system and you start to see how truly inept our forward in particular are. If we aren't playing for overloads Ange Ball doesn't work and if we are playing Ange Ball we might as well have just kept Ange.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I don't think you can play a more controlled version of Ange ball (+DM) and get results. Ange ball requires the entire team to be pushed high up the field to compress the space and allow the pressure to tell. Then it needs the numbers in and around the goal to help create overloads and second guess the defenders. All of that basically requires a very high line which is counter intuitive to Frank's primary (and very valid) concern, making this team more solid.

I would like more balance but I kind of accept that just playing a more controlled version of Ange ball probably doesn't really work because you know I've been saying for years the quality of our attacker is poop and we didn't score due to their quality but instead it was due to the system and primarily the overloads it created. Take away that system and you start to see how truly inept our forward in particular are. If we aren't playing for overloads Ange Ball doesn't work and if we are playing Ange Ball we might as well have just kept Ange.

Fair calls
I think the way we have gone to the other extreme (like we do with managers) is constantly why we have issues

 

[Grays_1890]

It’s not personal and we’re being respectful to each other which is all I ever ask of any engagement

The results have been mixed but IMO haven’t reflected the games a lot of the time

Bournemouth should have been a spanking
Monaco the same
Everton wasn’t a 3 nil game and out keeper was MOTM for me (it’s also his job)
Bodo bossed us
So did Villarreal but that was a poor game
We have also had deserved wins
I think we were unlucky too vs Villa

It's respectful mate, always is, but its to the point where its an impasse

Ce La Vie