**** OMT Tottenham Hotspur FC v Bodo Glimt ****

[braineclipse]

Frank didn't underestimate them. The facts are he recognises the requirement of rotation, but our squad just aren't good enough which some people find it really hard to comprehend fo some reason.

We have played two average at best CL teams and looked pretty poor in both. This squad is not ready to compete seriously in the CL which is fine - we just need to manage expectations....

There definitely is a need for rotation and we really do need to avoid another injury crisis like last season.

Frank did have options to play with more risk and ambition in our possession play even with the rotating he did. Gray or Bergvall in one of those deeper midfield roles for example. But him being somewhat risk averse he's going to go for the more defensively solid option most of the time. Which is fine, as long as he over time finds ways to improve our possession game.

Alternatively we could also make changes to our buildup structure. Bentancur dropping back, full backs higher, Sarr and Bergvall swapping places in the buildup phase. But again, some risk with that.

 

[billyiddo]

take this point, but we were missing them last season on the same ground, and didn’t face anywhere near the same level of threat from Bodo then. We were missing Romero, but I think the difference in performances were stark.

Bodo were in a mid season/end of season break when the last games rolled round and were missing 3 or 4 first teamers iirc - chalk and cheese.

I was very worried about our games last season, not just because of our form going in to them, but because of everything I'd seen and read about them as a team - last night showed why.

 

[braineclipse]

Bodo were in a mid season/end of season break when the last games rolled round and were missing 3 or 4 first teamers iirc - chalk and cheese.

I was very worried about our games last season, not just because of our form going in to the games but because of everything I'd seen and read about them as a team - last night showed why

Obviously a lower level team, but a very well coached/drilled team who also have a couple of players at least who are way above "their level". At home, first CL game at home, the pitch, the atmosphere. Never going to be easy.

And another game where some of their strengths (pressing, themselves being rather press resistant) match well with our weaknesses (in their favour).

 

[parj]

I do think Frank set us up to contain instead of control and attack. I think if we are going to progress, the central midfield players and full backs need to break. Too many times we had the ball at the back and we had 7 options in our defensive third,.... That just invites the press

 

[Rafa87]

I actually think more than anything here I need to remind myself of my pre season expectations. I think, now that the season is underway I’ve got a bit sucked into it all again and maybe lost track of where my thoughts were before the first game.

I said that I would be happy if Frank could get us qualified in Europe next season, so another EL run or hopefully CL. I also said that it would be harder to win something this season due to the step up between EL and CL, but I still want us to really go for the league cup and the FA cup.

I think we were left in a really bad state last season despite a great cup win, but I think as much as that cup win was fantastic and a life long memory, I think I’d forgotten just how much it covered up how atrocious the rest of the season was. I thought we did ok on the summer, Palinha, Kudus and Simons coming in, though equally Solanke, Maddison and Kulu then being injured removed the same amount of quality.

I think we’re a long way off in terms of players overall, and really need a couple more windows at least until we see the effects of some, hopefully, good buys. I think perhaps I lost track of my realism because I think Frank has made a good start, however I think I need to remind myself that this is basically a rebuild job in some areas and that this group in large parts haven’t played with any sort of tactics or plan for a long time and need to be set back into them and forget bad habits.

So as bad as last night was, and as much as it annoyed me to watch, I think I need to remember my pre season expectations and maybe realise there are going to be times like this for a season or two.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I agree except I don't think the "second string" is woeful. Unbalanced, but a lot of the players are fine in and of themselves. But our lack of ball progression qualities makes it dysfunctional as a team.

I normally rate what Brooks has to say and once again fully agree with him.

Only trying to progress the ball on the flanks isn't going to be enough.

Fine for now, but definitely needs improving over time.

It’s such a basic tactic and easy to address as the opposition

 

[DeanoAustin]

I actually think more than anything here I need to remind myself of my pre season expectations. I think, now that the season is underway I’ve got a bit sucked into it all again and maybe lost track of where my thoughts were before the first game.

I said that I would be happy if Frank could get us qualified in Europe next season, so another EL run or hopefully CL. I also said that it would be harder to win something this season due to the step up between EL and CL, but I still want us to really go for the league cup and the FA cup.

I think we were left in a really bad state last season despite a great cup win, but I think as much as that cup win was fantastic and a life long memory, I think I’d forgotten just how much it covered up how atrocious the rest of the season was. I thought we did ok on the summer, Palinha, Kudus and Simons coming in, though equally Solanke, Maddison and Kulu then being injured removed the same amount of quality.

I think we’re a long way off in terms of players overall, and really need a couple more windows at least until we see the effects of some, hopefully, good buys. I think perhaps I lost track of my realism because I think Frank has made a good start, however I think I need to remind myself that this is basically a rebuild job in some areas and that this group in large parts haven’t played with any sort of tactics or plan for a long time and need to be set back into them and forget bad habits.

So as bad as last night was, and as much as it annoyed me to watch, I think I need to remember my pre season expectations and maybe realise there are going to be times like this for a season or two.

Good post. We finished 17th last year. To jump from a 17th placed finish to top 4 or top 6 is a massive ask even given the circumstances around last season's campaign.

Frank's going to need time to get the team playing as he wants. At the moment, it's a pretty poor watch but it does look like he wants defensive solidity more than free flowing attacking football because last night and against Wolves, we never really got forward at pace in any numbers. And that's fair enough - most conventional wisdom suggests you have to build from the back.

 

[Grays_1890]

Well I think we learnt

- We are resilient, if you can't win, don't lose
- Porro is def not a RB, he is a liability there unfortunately, despite quality going forward
- I liked Vic, but its clear he is a panic merchant who breeds panic in them infront of him
- I like Richy as a squad player or on left, but he can not lead the line

I like what Franks done though alot so far in a short time

 

[DeanoAustin]

Well I think we learnt

- We are resilient, if you can't win, don't lose
- Porro is def not a RB, he is a liability there unfortunately, despite quality going forward
- I liked Vic, but its clear he is a panic merchant who breeds panic in them infront of him
- I like Richy as a squad player or on left, but he can not lead the line

I like what Franks done though alot so far in a short time

I’m a bit iffy on the resilience bit to be honest. I know we’ve come back 3 times in a row but I honestly think it’s more luck than a change in mentality.

We’ve been dogbrick in the last two games. Last night, they should have been out of sight. Against Wolves, we did literally nothing after going down 1-0. They were smash and grab draws IMO rather than us forcing our way back in.

I’ve lost count of the amount of times a manager comes in to Spurs and I’ve heard “we’d have lost that game last season” before we revert to type. It’ll take more than a few games to believe it.

On the plus side, I guess it could become a self fulfilling prophecy if the players start to believe it. However, we need to start playing better before it’ll mean anything. We can’t keep getting away with it.

 

[Grays_1890]

I’m a bit iffy on the resilience bit to be honest. I know we’ve come back 3 times in a row but I honestly think it’s more luck than a change in mentality.

We’ve been dogbrick in the last two games. Last night, they should have been out of sight. Against Wolves, we did literally nothing after going down 1-0. They were smash and grab draws IMO rather than us forcing our way back in.

I’ve lost count of the amount of times a manager comes in to Spurs and I’ve heard “we’d have lost that game last season” before we revert to type. It’ll take more than a few games to believe it.

On the plus side, I guess it could become a self fulfilling prophecy if the players start to believe it. However, we need to start playing better before it’ll mean anything. We can’t keep getting away with it.

Don't get me wrong, I am keeping my powder dry, but equally I am not losing faith in 9 games like some and I am certainly not having meltdowns on the likes of Simons like some either.

I am not expecting miracles with this club given get another massive change in direction

 

[DeanoAustin]

Don't get me wrong, I am keeping my powder dry, but equally I am not losing faith in 9 games like some and I am certainly not having meltdowns on the likes of Simons like some either.

I am not expecting miracles with this club given get another massive change in direction

Think that's fair and the points you made in your post, I'd generally agree on. Simons, IMO, will be a player. He needs time to settle, much like Tel and Odobert. You buy youth and potential, you have to give them a chance.

I think sometimes fans forget that these lads are people, not robots. Young lads in a foreign country, a different language and culture - that takes time.

Frank deserves time too even if it continues like this for a while. You can't go from what we were to what we want to be in a few months.

 

[Kandi1977]

We were really poor in the first half, and even well into the 2nd half when they went 2-0 up. But I'm not surprised we struggled against them. When they get going, they are a really good team, with some top class players that can hurt you in Bjørkan (LB. We should seriously consider going for him, and he wouldn't cost more than 5-10m), Berg and Evjen in midfield are top players and Jens Petter Hauge is phenomenal when he's on form, as he showed us. Once we made the changes, we were much better. Shame we didn't start with the same urgency. We've seen that quite often now, that we are good in one half, and utter brick in the other. That has to improve quickly!
All in all, a point away in the CL is far from a disaster.

 

[Gazza Dazzla]

Frank didn't underestimate them. The facts are he recognises the requirement of rotation, but our squad just aren't good enough which some people find it really hard to comprehend fo some reason.

We have played two average at best CL teams and looked pretty poor in both. This squad is not ready to compete seriously in the CL which is fine - we just need to manage expectations....

Hold up a minute, the squad right now and for the season so far is missing:
Dragusin
Takai
Bissouma
maddison
Kulu
Solanke
Muani

He rested/rotated the following yesterday:
Romero
Palinhia
Simons
Kudus
Udogie

And we still got a draw away from home in the CL at what is universally known as a tough place to go.

More generally for the season as a whole we Sit 4th in the league and have lost once all season. I think Spurs fans in general are massively underrating Villarreal as well by the way, they sit 3rd in their league above Atleti Madrid and well above Bilbao who when Arsenal beat them everyone was saying what a great win!?

Think the squad, as stretched as it currently is, is doing alright tbh… I’m not sure what people expected but if they thought it would be more than this (title challenge, smashing teams 5-0, ..?) then I don’t know what to say. Squads doing well though IMO, standing firm so far.

 

[metalgear]

Frank was risk averse and for good reason - Bodo were fresh from a week's break from football and we're like two days from and away from games in the EPL.

Hauge is so much better as a left sided attacker than anyone we have at the moment - while i want to say that our recruitment has focused on youth too much, its also an issue with injuries - so frustrating.

Richy should have scored early in the game - no excuse. Didn't contribute much the rest of the game except for the goal which was more of a fortunate bounce off the keeper.

Porro - he is a poor 1-on-1 defender for sure

 

[IulianSteaua]

Disagree. Albeit I hope to be wrong, but Odobert does not have the personality. He looks for all the world like a pure data signing to me. If he had the in-game personality of a Bergvall, Kudus, or Gray, he'd develop into something really good. I don't see it.

I was trying to say Odobert will be disliked by the fans as Tel is by some right now, if Odobert doesn't pick up his game.

 

[Sandman]

I was trying to say Odobert will be disliked by the fans as Tel is by some right now, if Odobert doesn't pick up his game.

we never shoudl have bought Tel. he is not a striker or a winger. And for me him and odobert have shown Zero in this team. We cant get a tune out of either of them. id Rather play Udogie left wing than either of them right now.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Some more thoughts:

The Bodo team were very impressive at pass and move, they always had a pass and made very quick, neat, decisive passes; that is what I expect from all professionals and Spurs so often make it look impossible to do.
When that happens, I often switch the teams in my mind i.e. for a couple of minutes, pretend that Spurs are in yellow and Bodo are the team in black... it is really illuminating just how much Spurs sit off and don't engage, they allow Bodo to think and pause and play triangles... when you imagine Spurs as the other team, you can really see it.

Bodo played a bit like Angeball, loads of players forwards, completely engaged all the way into the opposition half, then concede a goal or disallowed goal or post or crossbar with every single cross!

The pitch was an issue; lots of players slipping over and unable to turn as expected; very noticeably in the first few minutes as they got used to it and also as each sub came on the pitch and tried to stop quickly and just slipped instead.

The drum beats from the Bodo crowd were impressive, bam badda bam badda bam badda bam, about 180 beats per minute, relentless pressure and drumming... then you hear the mournful moan from the sad saps in the corner at 3 beats per minute c-o---ooo---o-oo---o-oome o-o-o--o-on y--o-o-oooouuu Sp-u-u--uuuu-uurrrr---s-ssssss. That isn't exactly going to "Spur" a team to passionate glory, now is it?

If Spurs fans don't travel, they should not get the loyalty points. The away end was at least half empty.

I wonder which Spurs owners/directors/seniors travelled to Bodo this time, anyone know?

I agree with this. It seemed to take most of our players time to be sure of their footing and the way that the ball rolled and bounced. I can't help but think it was a mistake not having the 45 minutes training on the pitch that we were allowed to have but chose to forfeit.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Was out after work at a restaurant yesterday, then followed the match forum here in teh last 30 mins on my train home...

Honestly speaking, what should the final score have been if all is fair in the world?

 

[Finney Is Back]

Wow you guys are harsh, we are missing 2 of our creative outlets in Maddison and Kulu, missing our main CB in Romero - our best midfielder was being rested as a sub and our main striker is also out meaning Richy isn’t getting a break either. All of that while playing on an unusual pitch, against a team who showed they were no pushovers last season, especially at home.

Did I like how reactive we were ? No of course not, but it’s understandable not to mention we are only game 8?? Into the new managers way if working.

Would I have taken an away draw at the start? Absolutely, we should have started more on the front foot but they fought back hard and really had the best chances (Odobert header/Bentacur ruled out goal/Richy miss at start) on top of the 2 we did score. On and up!!

Did you miss the umpteen chances that Bodo had?

 

[Finney Is Back]

Disagree. Albeit I hope to be wrong, but Odobert does not have the personality. He looks for all the world like a pure data signing to me. If he had the in-game personality of a Bergvall, Kudus, or Gray, he'd develop into something really good. I don't see it.

I thought he was our best attacking player of all the starters last night. Actually tried to make something happen every time he got the ball, despite being largely isolated.