Daniel Levy - Chairman

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

Where would we be in terms of financial rules (pick which one you like) if we had signed half the players that people have had the hots for on here? We get who we get, sure be dissapointed but let's realise who ever we buy is a gamble and we can't have all the toys in the shop. If I was as disgusted with the way the club is run I'd find a better one and have a happy life living in the reflected glory.

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

It is an interesting discussion because there are two truths. Yes, we get deals done, but when it comes to potentially transformative players - or instant ‘difference makers’ - we rarely get the deals across the line. I think it’s fair to say that Eze is a difference maker when put against Biss.
Whenever we dangle a leg for a ‘big big’ signing, it is rare we get it across the line. We have, as many have said, made some excellent signings, but I’m thinking of this specific area. The Brunos, the Dybalas, the Diaz’s, the Ezes even. I understand that there are many nuances, but there also appears to be denominator, that we will only ever go ‘so far’ - and that if we do achieve an ‘accord’ we will then try to squeeze a little more. With Eze, I am still baffled that we didn’t either get the deal done earlier or not go there after all. We ended up at the same figure as the release clause; if we were seriously interested, why did we not just put that money down in the first place? Then if the goons had come in it would’ve forced an answer. Instead, it looks to me like we left the door ajar. FWIW I don’t believe that Eze ‘called Arteta Wed AM and asked if he wanted him’. More like they’ll have talked before and the agents involved would’ve dealt with Palace and the goons. I am guessing more like the goons get wind of this injury, ask Palace if the ink is dry, Palace say the pen hasn’t come out yet, goons say ‘can you wait an hour’ and there it is…anyway, long-winded there but it is an interesting discussion. There are no absolutes I agree, not with transfers, not with Daniel either, good and bad in all areas…like life!

I think it’s really interesting, because I agree that Solanke, Richy, Maddison, Biss, Kudus, Johnson, they are top performers from teams below us that we’ve picked up. And with Romero, VDV, Vicario, you could put some of the top performers of similarly stationed clubs in Europe into that camp. And then Deki, Udogie, Bergval, Tel, it’s some of the best young players.

So I would agree that post stadium we have stepped up our level in terms of quality of signings we can make. There’s less Nelsen / Saha punts, and more consistently getting high potential or high quality first team additions. No doubt.

I guess the difficulty is that post stadium many of us may have hoped that it didn’t just put us up to the level of being the English Dortmund, but would get us to being on the level of the other big 6. And that hasn’t really happened. Because they’d make those kinds of signings (and we used to too eg Modric), but they’d also compete among the very best clubs for talent, and that’s where Eze comes in.

We’re not quite there where we move aggressively against another top 6 club for a signing we really want. And I’m not ascribing blame for that, just saying it as it is. It’s either we don’t quite have the firepower, the ambition, or maybe it’s that we weren’t honestly convinced that an Eze would be much better suited to us than a Paz or an Akliouche.

Saudi Sportswashing Machine are clearly struggling with the same dynamic. And clearly there’s no easy answer. I am happy with the fact that we are at least trying for these players now. Consistently. I believe that we will end the window with a 10 and a winger. And I wouldn’t believe that a few years ago. Eg we managed to sell Berbatov and end up with Frazier Campbell,

There is though clearly one more gear we can move through, that’s the next step. Maybe it takes a few more years of stadium revenue, CL money, or further outside investment. Or maybe that’s never in the plan. But I think that extra gear is the one that’s going to get us closer to winning PLs and CLs, which Levy has now said is the goal.

 

[thfcsteff]

I clearly don't rate Eze as highly as you do.

Also, I'd say the output from Fernandes and Dybala (in his remaining time at Juve), since the reported approaches, puts them both in the bullet dodged category.

I can see that for sure. With Dybala, given that we bought Poch a new toy and loaned him one only to sack him 3 months later, I'd say you're right. I love Eze as a player and think he is probably not especially suited to what Frank wants.

 

[braineclipse]

I think it’s really interesting, because I agree that Solanke, Richy, Maddison, Biss, Kudus, Johnson, they are top performers from teams below us that we’ve picked up. And with Romero, VDV, Vicario, you could put some of the top performers of similarly stationed clubs in Europe into that camp. And then Deki, Udogie, Bergval, Tel, it’s some of the best young players.

So I would agree that post stadium we have stepped up our level in terms of quality of signings we can make. There’s less Nelsen / Saha punts, and more consistently getting high potential or high quality first team additions. No doubt.

I guess the difficulty is that post stadium many of us may have hoped that it didn’t just put us up to the level of being the English Dortmund, but would get us to being on the level of the other big 6. And that hasn’t really happened. Because they’d make those kinds of signings (and we used to too eg Modric), but they’d also compete among the very best clubs for talent, and that’s where Eze comes in.

We’re not quite there where we move aggressively against another top 6 club for a signing we really want. And I’m not ascribing blame for that, just saying it as it is. It’s either we don’t quite have the firepower, the ambition, or maybe it’s that we weren’t honestly convinced that an Eze would be much better suited to us than a Paz or an Akliouche.

Saudi Sportswashing Machine are clearly struggling with the same dynamic. And clearly there’s no easy answer. I am happy with the fact that we are at least trying for these players now. Consistently. I believe that we will end the window with a 10 and a winger. And I wouldn’t believe that a few years ago. Eg we managed to sell Berbatov and end up with Frazier Campbell,

There is though clearly one more gear we can move through, that’s the next step. Maybe it takes a few more years of stadium revenue, CL money, or further outside investment. Or maybe that’s never in the plan. But I think that extra gear is the one that’s going to get us closer to winning PLs and CLs, which Levy has now said is the goal.

Post stadium we have stepped up our spending significantly, but we're still not as wealthy as the big clubs.

The stadium being finished came in a period where poor recruitment, covid and some managerial appointments that didn't work out.

We've had to replace essentially our entire squad in the 4 years since Paratici first stepped in. That's a massive turnover of players. Losing our two biggest stars in the process. Just thinking about how that turnover would have looked if we didn't have the stadium money, it would have been rough.

We're at a different stage now. But the reality is that where we've been in recent years those game changing players will sometimes choose not to come to us. And we won't go into a mode where we just spend over the top on wages to get them here, because we're still not as rich as the richest clubs.

 

[braineclipse]

It is an interesting discussion because there are two truths. Yes, we get deals done, but when it comes to potentially transformative players - or instant ‘difference makers’ - we rarely get the deals across the line. I think it’s fair to say that Eze is a difference maker when put against Biss.
Whenever we dangle a leg for a ‘big big’ signing, it is rare we get it across the line. We have, as many have said, made some excellent signings, but I’m thinking of this specific area. The Brunos, the Dybalas, the Diaz’s, the Ezes even. I understand that there are many nuances, but there also appears to be denominator, that we will only ever go ‘so far’ - and that if we do achieve an ‘accord’ we will then try to squeeze a little more. With Eze, I am still baffled that we didn’t either get the deal done earlier or not go there after all. We ended up at the same figure as the release clause; if we were seriously interested, why did we not just put that money down in the first place? Then if the goons had come in it would’ve forced an answer. Instead, it looks to me like we left the door ajar. FWIW I don’t believe that Eze ‘called Arteta Wed AM and asked if he wanted him’. More like they’ll have talked before and the agents involved would’ve dealt with Palace and the goons. I am guessing more like the goons get wind of this injury, ask Palace if the ink is dry, Palace say the pen hasn’t come out yet, goons say ‘can you wait an hour’ and there it is…anyway, long-winded there but it is an interesting discussion. There are no absolutes I agree, not with transfers, not with Daniel either, good and bad in all areas…like life!

I partly agree, but there are so many unknowns. What were the terms of the release clause? Just as a hypothetical, if doing the release clause meant we had to pay a lot in the first installment and that meant we couldn't go for other targets we wanted this summer do you still want us to just pay the release clause?

Not saying that was the case, just an example of the many unknowns to us where for me at least it makes it impossible to know what the club should be doing.

I agree the big transformative signings have often seemed to get away from us. Is that because the club/Levy weren't willing to push hard enough, or were those somewhat long shot targets that were always going to be difficult to actually get done for whatever reason. Players that look obviously good enough to be transformative for us quickly are mostly going to be difficult to get done imo.

It may be that Levy has gotten burned one too many times. Trusted footballing people paid up and ended up stuck with an Ndombele long after the people he trusted are gone from the club. Positives and negatives to that if true as you say.

For me we've essentially rebuilt the entire squad over 4 years, spending a lot in the process and for me ending up with a squad now that I really like that doesn't have massive holes, but that needs some more key additions to be really good. Whatever the strategy is that got us here can't be that bad and should allow us to progress further.

But if we end up with no more significant business this summer that will be really disappointing. Said before this was the summer where focusing on a relatively small number of real quality players made a lot of sense (finally). Kudus and Palhinha fits that, but don't think it's quite enough.

 

[braineclipse]

I can see that for sure. With Dybala, given that we bought Poch a new toy and loaned him one only to sack him 3 months later, I'd say you're right. I love Eze as a player and think he is probably not especially suited to what Frank wants.

I think Eze would have been really good. Think Frank can work well with a fairly wide range of player profiles. Part of why I'm not THAT concerned about not getting Eze. Should be good for our recruitment, his needs aren't so narrow that it means we're not looking in a really small pool.

If we end up getting someone with a somewhat lower profile perhaps that could be useful in a way? Would make it easier to "drop" that player in a big game and start the Palhinha - Bentancur - Sarr trio of destructive space covering awesomeness. More squad focused, less individual stars? I think the that may suit Frank.

I'm still hoping that what we've seen before is what's happening now too and that there is stuff going on not being reported on by the constant spam of rumours media circus. May be a over the top hopeful and optimistic hope, but hey...

 

[DubSpur]

I think it’s really interesting, because I agree that Solanke, Richy, Maddison, Biss, Kudus, Johnson, they are top performers from teams below us that we’ve picked up. And with Romero, VDV, Vicario, you could put some of the top performers of similarly stationed clubs in Europe into that camp. And then Deki, Udogie, Bergval, Tel, it’s some of the best young players.

So I would agree that post stadium we have stepped up our level in terms of quality of signings we can make. There’s less Nelsen / Saha punts, and more consistently getting high potential or high quality first team additions. No doubt.

I guess the difficulty is that post stadium many of us may have hoped that it didn’t just put us up to the level of being the English Dortmund, but would get us to being on the level of the other big 6. And that hasn’t really happened. Because they’d make those kinds of signings (and we used to too eg Modric), but they’d also compete among the very best clubs for talent, and that’s where Eze comes in.

We’re not quite there where we move aggressively against another top 6 club for a signing we really want. And I’m not ascribing blame for that, just saying it as it is. It’s either we don’t quite have the firepower, the ambition, or maybe it’s that we weren’t honestly convinced that an Eze would be much better suited to us than a Paz or an Akliouche.

Saudi Sportswashing Machine are clearly struggling with the same dynamic. And clearly there’s no easy answer. I am happy with the fact that we are at least trying for these players now. Consistently. I believe that we will end the window with a 10 and a winger. And I wouldn’t believe that a few years ago. Eg we managed to sell Berbatov and end up with Frazier Campbell,

There is though clearly one more gear we can move through, that’s the next step. Maybe it takes a few more years of stadium revenue, CL money, or further outside investment. Or maybe that’s never in the plan. But I think that extra gear is the one that’s going to get us closer to winning PLs and CLs, which Levy has now said is the goal.

There's two reasons that we're not at the level of the other big 6 clubs. They have a much better recent history of winning things or at least competing right at the top so are more attractive for top players that want to win things. Second reason is wages and is really the only one that can be changed relatively quickly. But is it self restriction on the wages or as rumoured more to do with the banks?

 

[Baleforce]

I think Eze would have been really good. Think Frank can work well with a fairly wide range of player profiles. Part of why I'm not THAT concerned about not getting Eze. Should be good for our recruitment, his needs aren't so narrow that it means we're not looking in a really small pool.

If we end up getting someone with a somewhat lower profile perhaps that could be useful in a way? Would make it easier to "drop" that player in a big game and start the Palhinha - Bentancur - Sarr trio of destructive space covering awesomeness. More squad focused, less individual stars? I think the that may suit Frank.

I'm still hoping that what we've seen before is what's happening now too and that there is stuff going on not being reported on by the constant spam of rumours media circus. May be a over the top hopeful and optimistic hope, but hey...

I think we can match the stats without paying the English/PL tax too.

 

[Mabspurs]

I guess the difficulty is that post stadium many of us may have hoped that it didn’t just put us up to the level of being the English Dortmund, but would get us to being on the level of the other big 6. And that hasn’t really happened. Because they’d make those kinds of signings (and we used to too eg Modric), but they’d also compete among the very best clubs for talent, and that’s where Eze comes in.

I have no problem being the English Dortmund but then we need a proper consistent strategy to match...

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

I have no problem being the English Dortmund but then we need a proper consistent strategy to match...

To be fair I think, certainly since Lange was hired, we do have that. I won’t criticise the strategy we now follow, if the financial constraints relative to other clubs are what they are.

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

Post stadium we have stepped up our spending significantly, but we're still not as wealthy as the big clubs.

The stadium being finished came in a period where poor recruitment, covid and some managerial appointments that didn't work out.

We've had to replace essentially our entire squad in the 4 years since Paratici first stepped in. That's a massive turnover of players. Losing our two biggest stars in the process. Just thinking about how that turnover would have looked if we didn't have the stadium money, it would have been rough.

We're at a different stage now. But the reality is that where we've been in recent years those game changing players will sometimes choose not to come to us. And we won't go into a mode where we just spend over the top on wages to get them here, because we're still not as rich as the richest clubs.

I agree, I understand all the turnover etc. I totally get it.

The fact is though Liverpool, City and Chelsea elevated themselves to a level where they would consistently fight for that top tier of player. Arsenal dropped out of that echelon for a few years but are now back there.

It is not impossible for clubs to elevate themselves to that position. Maybe it takes time, maybe it takes outside investment, maybe it takes a little more risk. But the fact is Levy sacked a trophy winning manager and talked about winning PLs and CLs. That is now the bar. I think I was saying I was bored of being a top 6 club and wanted to win the league before Levy said it. But that’s how I’m going to be looking at our business going forward.

And I’ll say - Savinho and Akliouche in addition to what we’ve already done this summer and I’ll say that’s a damn good window.

 

[glorygloryeze]

I agree, I understand all the turnover etc. I totally get it.

The fact is though Liverpool, City and Chelsea elevated themselves to a level where they would consistently fight for that top tier of player. Arsenal dropped out of that echelon for a few years but are now back there.

It is not impossible for clubs to elevate themselves to that position. Maybe it takes time, maybe it takes outside investment, maybe it takes a little more risk. But the fact is Levy sacked a trophy winning manager and talked about winning PLs and CLs. That is now the bar. I think I was saying I was bored of being a top 6 club and wanted to win the league before Levy said it. But that’s how I’m going to be looking at our business going forward.

And I’ll say - Savinho and Akliouche in addition to what we’ve already done this summer and I’ll say that’s a damn good window.

Interestingly, there was a rather depressing post on another Spurs forum made by a poster who said they knew the Kroenkes and that now that they had majority control of Arsenal that they were very VERY ambitious and had a plan to continue pumping money to win trophies.

The poster said that the thinking of the Kroenkes was that money spent now to win trophies now will pay itself back in future as children nowaday tends to choose to support successful teams and that they would be the people who become the next generation of supporters who will give their money to the club when they 'come of age' as it were and on and on it will go (so they believe).

Sobering thought from many different points of view...

 

[braineclipse]

I agree, I understand all the turnover etc. I totally get it.

The fact is though Liverpool, City and Chelsea elevated themselves to a level where they would consistently fight for that top tier of player. Arsenal dropped out of that echelon for a few years but are now back there.

It is not impossible for clubs to elevate themselves to that position. Maybe it takes time, maybe it takes outside investment, maybe it takes a little more risk. But the fact is Levy sacked a trophy winning manager and talked about winning PLs and CLs. That is now the bar. I think I was saying I was bored of being a top 6 club and wanted to win the league before Levy said it. But that’s how I’m going to be looking at our business going forward.

And I’ll say - Savinho and Akliouche in addition to what we’ve already done this summer and I’ll say that’s a damn good window.

I agree that's the bar. I think it's good to set that bar high. But I don't think Levy or Frank or the club should be measured against the bar this season. The way to potentially get there is imo through good long term planning and execution

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

I agree that's the bar. I think it's good to set that bar high. But I don't think Levy or Frank or the club should be measured against the bar this season. The way to potentially get there is imo through good long term planning and execution

I agree, I don’t require us to have the CL winning squad at the end of this window. Which is why I say if we add Savinho and Akliouche to the business we’ve already done, I’ll be really impressed. It’s about as well as we could have done, and exceeded expectation at the start of the window. Even taking into account the body blows of MGW and Eze, we will have at least moved on swiftly to other targets and got Frank the players he wants. I’ll absolutely credit that.

I do think if we’re going to eventually win the PL and CL we are going to need to do what Arsenal and Liverpool have done, and compete with the other big sides for the big signing. A Rice, an Eze. I think we’re going to need one or two of those ourselves to eventually get there.

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

Interestingly, there was a rather depressing post on another Spurs forum made by a poster who said they knew the Kroenkes and that now that they had majority control of Arsenal that they were very VERY ambitious and had a plan to continue pumping money to win trophies.

The poster said that the thinking of the Kroenkes was that money spent now to win trophies now will pay itself back in future as children nowaday tends to choose to support successful teams and that they would be the people who become the next generation of supporters who will give their money to the club when they 'come of age' as it were and on and on it will go (so they believe).

Sobering thought from many different points of view...

Yep, and it’s hard to argue. They’ve kind of moved really efficiently this summer and it’s not…gone under the radar as such but when you take that business in the round it’s really strong, and before that, moving for Rice. A very ambitious move.

I think we need to be operating at that level if we’re gonna win the PL and CL.

 

[metalgear]

Post stadium we have stepped up our spending significantly, but we're still not as wealthy as the big clubs.

The stadium being finished came in a period where poor recruitment, covid and some managerial appointments that didn't work out.

We've had to replace essentially our entire squad in the 4 years since Paratici first stepped in. That's a massive turnover of players. Losing our two biggest stars in the process. Just thinking about how that turnover would have looked if we didn't have the stadium money, it would have been rough.

We're at a different stage now. But the reality is that where we've been in recent years those game changing players will sometimes choose not to come to us. And we won't go into a mode where we just spend over the top on wages to get them here, because we're still not as rich as the richest clubs.

who are the big clubs? Emirates Marketing Project, chelsea, man u i guess have endless monies it seems
are liverpool and arsenal big clubs too or just better run?
Saudi Sportswashing Machine and villa have seemingly smaller overall budgets but get their priorities right (little investment in kids)

 

[Lilbaz]

who are the big clubs? Emirates Marketing Project, chelsea, man u i guess have endless monies it seems
are liverpool and arsenal big clubs too or just better run?
Saudi Sportswashing Machine and villa have seemingly smaller overall budgets but get their priorities right (little investment in kids)

Hall, minteh, osula, gordon, ashby... for Saudi Sportswashing Machine.

All 21 or younger.

Sure villa had similar.

 

[thfcsteff]

I think Eze would have been really good. Think Frank can work well with a fairly wide range of player profiles. Part of why I'm not THAT concerned about not getting Eze. Should be good for our recruitment, his needs aren't so narrow that it means we're not looking in a really small pool.

If we end up getting someone with a somewhat lower profile perhaps that could be useful in a way? Would make it easier to "drop" that player in a big game and start the Palhinha - Bentancur - Sarr trio of destructive space covering awesomeness. More squad focused, less individual stars? I think the that may suit Frank.

I'm still hoping that what we've seen before is what's happening now too and that there is stuff going on not being reported on by the constant spam of rumours media circus. May be a over the top hopeful and optimistic hope, but hey...

Agree with all of this, and with regards to the boldface bit, I am sure that is the case.

 

[thfcsteff]

I partly agree, but there are so many unknowns. What were the terms of the release clause? Just as a hypothetical, if doing the release clause meant we had to pay a lot in the first installment and that meant we couldn't go for other targets we wanted this summer do you still want us to just pay the release clause?

Not saying that was the case, just an example of the many unknowns to us where for me at least it makes it impossible to know what the club should be doing.

I agree the big transformative signings have often seemed to get away from us. Is that because the club/Levy weren't willing to push hard enough, or were those somewhat long shot targets that were always going to be difficult to actually get done for whatever reason. Players that look obviously good enough to be transformative for us quickly are mostly going to be difficult to get done imo.

It may be that Levy has gotten burned one too many times. Trusted footballing people paid up and ended up stuck with an Ndombele long after the people he trusted are gone from the club. Positives and negatives to that if true as you say.

For me we've essentially rebuilt the entire squad over 4 years, spending a lot in the process and for me ending up with a squad now that I really like that doesn't have massive holes, but that needs some more key additions to be really good. Whatever the strategy is that got us here can't be that bad and should allow us to progress further.

But if we end up with no more significant business this summer that will be really disappointing. Said before this was the summer where focusing on a relatively small number of real quality players made a lot of sense (finally). Kudus and Palhinha fits that, but don't think it's quite enough.

Good conversation...I will add that the elephant in the room is no-one really likes dealing with Levy!

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Interestingly, there was a rather depressing post on another Spurs forum made by a poster who said they knew the Kroenkes and that now that they had majority control of Arsenal that they were very VERY ambitious and had a plan to continue pumping money to win trophies.

The poster said that the thinking of the Kroenkes was that money spent now to win trophies now will pay itself back in future as children nowaday tends to choose to support successful teams and that they would be the people who become the next generation of supporters who will give their money to the club when they 'come of age' as it were and on and on it will go (so they believe).

Sobering thought from many different points of view...

Thank GHod we're not successful.....it's hard enough to get a ticket already