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AUDERE EST FACERE - NOW MORE THAN EVER

NaijaSpurs said:
So in two seasons we had a 5th place finish and a European trophy and that was as you say inspite of the manager not because of him.
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Our squad is top 4 quality and was always the best in the EL this season. All we ended up doing to win it was just not play 2 at the back in 3 games. Imagine what we could do with this group organised and drilled.
 
Gutter Boy said:
Have I been wrong though? Does anyone think any of Mourinho, Nuno, Conte or Ange were good appointments? Or that any of them have done anything other than cause us to regress? A handful of Paratici signings have been the only competent managerial actions of the past 5 years. Everything else has been decline.
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You end up getting a romantic fixation on a manager from 5 years before. It used to be AVB and you kept him as your avatar for years and it took you a while to get over him. Now it’s Poch and no other manager will compare

Your entitled to like other manages sand not like others but it doesn’t seem a necessary step to start saying “rename the Ange dingdong sucking thread” and complain about him absolutely everywhere not long after he’s delivered a trophy
 
Craig_J said:
You end up getting a romantic fixation on a manager from 5 years before. It used to be AVB and you kept him as your avatar for years and it took you a while to get over him. Now it’s Poch and no other manager will compare

Your entitled to like other manages sand not like others but it doesn’t seem a necessary step to start saying “rename the Ange dingdong sucking thread” and complain about him absolutely everywhere not long after he’s delivered a trophy
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Do you not long to be proud of the man or woman leading our club? To enjoy a game of ours - see us beat a team with verve?
 
Mr Gogolak said:
To be fair to GB, it was supposed to be a discussion. If you don't want to hear/read different opinions, maybe that should have been made clear. There's a lot to say about yesterday's game but now's not the time to go into the finer details, in my opinion. However, you can't bait people with 'discuss' and then tell to fudge off when they stand their ground.
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This thread was specifically to have a discussion about whether us -fans, supporters - can unshackle ourselves from fear and fear of things going wrong, something I think has become an increasing issue in life generally, where it seems the race to assume negativity is getting faster, and the fear of a negative outcome from certain actions is increasingly projected.

It was not intended to be about the match specifically or the manager. It was certainly a questioned posed in light of things we learned from Wed night i.e. how to win, how the players have unshackled themselves from such negativity, and whether we can follow suit and believe on a more frequent basis.
 
Gutter Boy said:
Why not rename it the Ange rooster sucking thread, and have a cult reminiscing about his 10 good games in 2023 and the Henry Winkler video.
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It has so LITTLE to do with Postecoglu, but you -of course- brought it there because you, of course, are so hardwired that it is impossible for you to disengage.

Again @Gutter Boy, can we -as a supporters- change OUR ways? Can people get beyond their pre-baked fears? Can people understand that this is a new era? Can we no longer embrace fear?
Because the truth is, if you can't do that, then whoever is manager at the start of next season is on a hiding to nothing once more. THAT'S what I'm asking...
 
I hope the players learnt last night how much it meant to the fans and want to earn that type of support every game. Bill Nicholson was forever drilling into his teams how much they owed to the fans. I want us all to realise we are in this together and if you are ENTITLED to moan go home and moan to someone who cares about what you think and don't poison the atmosphere at our ground.
 
thfcsteff said:
It has so LITTLE to do with Postecoglu, but you -of course- brought it there because you, of course, are so hardwired that it is impossible for you to disengage.

Again @Gutter Boy, can we -as a supporters- change OUR ways? Can people get beyond their pre-baked fears? Can people understand that this is a new era? Can we no longer embrace fear?
Because the truth is, if you can't do that, then whoever is manager at the start of next season is on a hiding to nothing once more. THAT'S what I'm asking...
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It's not fear. It's predictability. It's having complete foresight of how things will play out, unless they are remedied.

Deep down everyone knows it too. There's no positive route forward from here with the status quo.

I just hope he gets on the mic after Brighton and goes 'the kids really miss their mates from school, so I've reluctantly had accept the Rangers job. Cheerio'
 
Gutter Boy said:
It's not fear. It's predictability. It's having complete foresight of how things will play out, unless they are remedied.

Deep down everyone knows it too. There's no positive route forward from here with the status quo.

I just hope he gets on the mic after Brighton and goes 'the kids really miss their mates from school, so I've reluctantly had accept the Rangers job. Cheerio'
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I have to say, this one sentence tells me a lot.
Foresight. In fairness, I believe said-foresight did not place us as arriving at this specific moment?

Listen, all I can say at this point is bless you if -in fact- you are one of the only human beings on this planet who can accurately predict the future.
Everyone can make projections based on history, in fact it is often wise to do so, but it is equally wise to accept what you don't have control of. I have other questions of what you posted, but I'll put them in another thread on another day.

You still, by the way, have not clearly answered the one question I asked, which is before any decisions on anything or anyone are made, are you prepared to accept that this is potentially a new era, and as such let go of past fears and shackles?
 
thfcsteff said:
I have to say, this one sentence tells me a lot.
Foresight. In fairness, I believe said-foresight did not place us as arriving at this specific moment?

Listen, all I can say at this point is bless you if -in fact- you are one of the only human beings on this planet who can accurately predict the future.
Everyone can make projections based on history, in fact it is often wise to do so, but it is equally wise to accept what you don't have control of. I have other questions of what you posted, but I'll put them in another thread on another day.

You still, by the way, have not clearly answered the one question I asked, which is before any decisions on anything or anyone are made, are you prepared to accept that this is potentially a new era, and as such let go of past fears and shackles?
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It's hard to fear when you don't care as much. 5 years of toxicity has sapped almost all the care. I really feared losing in Madrid. Last night I enjoyed it, but I would have easily shrugged it off if they'd got the kneed OG instead.

What's the Einstein quote - madness is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. We've had 21 months of being appalling coached and getting schooled by worse teams with better coaches. Short of Ange disappearing in a Bill and Ted phone box and coming back newly educated in the art, foresight is that the status quo will continue the status quo. Foresight is we'll play the next 5 games the same as the last 90 and we'll then have to make a panic appointment during the first international break.
 
thfcsteff said:
This thread was specifically to have a discussion about whether us -fans, supporters - can unshackle ourselves from fear and fear of things going wrong, something I think has become an increasing issue in life generally, where it seems the race to assume negativity is getting faster, and the fear of a negative outcome from certain actions is increasingly projected.

It was not intended to be about the match specifically or the manager. It was certainly a questioned posed in light of things we learned from Wed night i.e. how to win, how the players have unshackled themselves from such negativity, and whether we can follow suit and believe on a more frequent basis.
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As I've said before, one person's negative is another person's positive. As an example, if someone does want Ange out it is purely because they want a positive outcome for the club. We should not label them as negative because they actually aren't. It is sort of the same as censoring all conversations about it whilst we wallow in victory. If people want to talk about, then let them. We all have a choice to join in or not. It'\s a lot worse when people don't write what they are actually feeling.

Your original point is the more interesting one though. When we went 1-0 up yesterday, my mate and I spent the next hour fearing that they would score. We even said it out loud a few times. I'm guessing we sort of expected it as an ingrained behaviour after decades of Spurs failing. The great question is how does the Spurs fan mentality shift into a much stronger belief system. When do we start sitting there thinking about the 2nd and 3rd goal rather than the opposition scoring in our net? That's how a Pool fan thinks right now.

My feeling on this is a bigger picture perspective actually. I would say that Spurs (and England) has been the weakest link in my life for a long time. I've won in life in so many other ways and experienced success in almost every other aspect. Therefore, as Spurs make their change it should be easy just to slot into that persona. It's the "reasons to believe" argument. Are Spurs giving us enough reasons to believe? I'm not the type to be a happy clapper. I need reasons to be a happy clapper. What happened last night was a reason. Now I need more and more. Just like Robspur was talking about the other day. Being that 8 year old in 1981 and seeing the 3 trophies land. I was also that same 8 year old in that same year. By 1985 we had plenty of reasons to believe. Poch also gave us that from about 2015.

Change management is subtle. You can't just make people change. There has to be a belief first. I still think the direction of travel at Spurs is a good one.
 
Gutter Boy said:
It's hard to fear when you don't care as much. 5 years of toxicity has sapped almost all the care. I really feared losing in Madrid. Last night I enjoyed it, but I would have easily shrugged it off if they'd got the kneed OG instead.

What's the Einstein quote - madness is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. We've had 21 months of being appalling coached and getting schooled by worse teams with better coaches. Short of Ange disappearing in a Bill and Ted phone box and coming back newly educated in the act, foresight is that the status quo will continue the status quo. Foresight is we'll play the next 5 games the same as the last 90 and we'll then have to make a panic appointment during the first international break.
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Interesting.

I have said on several occasions that June 2019 in Madrid and Nov 2019 when Poch was sacked both broke a piece of me.
I wept.
Each time.
We've discussed this on here before.
I believe we're in total agreement.
I think we also agree on what the next appts did to us.
Where we differ is that I cannot allow the joy when it is there to be had to be turned away.

If we're talking Einstein, here's a couple I like...
A man should look for what it is, and not what he thinks should be...

Hitteth ye not the vicar with thine football lest he smite thee a mighty blow which would knock the gonads off an elephant...oh, sorry, that ws Paul Whicker The Tall Vicar from VIZ!!!!!!!
 
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