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Why can't we break teams down?

Re: We can't we break teams down?

We dont seem to have a clue attacking wise at the moment. You are right there were moments under Redknapp when we couldnt score against teams like this, but in these games we would give it a far better go than we are at the moment, often missing chance after chance. At the moment almost every home game is the same whereas it would be 5 good games then one of these in the past.

And the reason probably is down to the manager. We dont look like a team with a plan when we have the ball. Without the ball I can see what AVB wants us to do, with the ball I have no idea what we are trying to do - unless AVB has set instructions to slowly build up and then try and score a 25 yard wonder goal. I think a lot of it comes down to AVB being too strict with the players, they dont seem to have freedom to play to their strengths.
 
Re: We can't we break teams down?

Rossi22 said:
It's fairly simple.

Our team is built around pace, you take away the space and the pace means nothing. We have unintelligent players in the final third. Lennon thinks like a greyhound, Defoe thinks like a hitman, Bale thinks like a train, Ade is a little smarter but isn't playing well at the moment. There's no guile or craft to our play, there's not much thought to our attacking play other than run down the line fast, cross it in and see what happens ... this is the effect of taking the brains(Modric and VDV) out of the team, it's not entirely down to that but it plays a big part.

Lets not pretend like this is something new though, it's been one of our biggest weaknesses for a while now.
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Exactly. There's no creativity or brains in the advanced areas and there is a big gap between CMs and CFs. We need a Rafa or Willian asap
 
Re: We can't we break teams down?

AdamB said:
Pretty stupid question is you ask me. Its perfectly obvious. We have no creativity in the final third, in and around the box. We've had it in the last couple years in Rafa however since we sold him we have no-one in the really advanced, central areas who can unpick a defence. Adebayor and Defoe are good however neither are craetive nor clever whilst Bale and Lennon rely on pcae and play out wide and Dembele is best player deep.

We need to bring in a Rafa-replacement in Jan. Dempsey is an 'effort' player rather than a clever player and SIggy isnt up to the standard yet
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It's not a stupid question. And you're wrong anyway, we struggled to break teams down even with VDV and Modric.
 
Re: We can't we break teams down?

milo said:
Quality of players. All of the teams who finished above us last season (and several that finished below) had a forward who could create something out of nothing. We don't.
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Defoe has done this quite a few times this season. So has Bale. I think the only reason we have picked up so many points is because of the individual moments our players have had. The only problem is this sort of thing cant happen every game.

Also for the people talking about us in the middle of the park, if AVB wanted he could play Hudd and Dembele at home. Sandro is great, but if we are struggling in the middle to get on the ball and play it quickly and accurately then Hudd is a very capable option. I think if AVB saw the middle as the problem then he would at least try and get Hudd involved a bit more at home.
 
Re: We can't we break teams down?

Whats funny is that we just couldnt get the ball to Defoe.

But then again Stoke know how to defend, and Shawcross was fantastic.
 
Re: We can't we break teams down?

AdamB said:
Exactly. There's no creativity or brains in the advanced areas and there is a big gap between CMs and CFs. We need a Rafa or Willian asap
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Sorry this is the sort of rubbish that just gets spouted every time we cant score. "the players aren't clever enough" - lets give them football IQ tests in future shall we ?

There is no creativity - but there easily could be with this squad. Its just tactics and style of play.
 
Re: We can't we break teams down?

Happens to any side. Stoke were always going to park the bus today, they are a half decent side who have a good option when attacking on the break so you can't just throw caution to the wind. We have a lot of options when we go forward, players who can run at the opposition in Bale and Lennon, a poacher in the box in Defoe, players who are willing to have a crack from distance in Defoe, Dembele, Sandro, Bale, Walker. We should also be able to boast a target man in Adebayor but far too often he drifts out wide and then we lose the chance of getting a head on a cross. However, that alone wasn't the reason we failed to score today, it just was what it was.

On the whole though we have been disappointing at home this year. Confidence is a big thing, and I don't think the crowd are helping much these days.
 
Re: We can't we break teams down?

Golfball said:
Defoe has done this quite a few times this season. So has Bale. I think the only reason we have picked up so many points is because of the individual moments our players have had. The only problem is this sort of thing cant happen every game.

Also for the people talking about us in the middle of the park, if AVB wanted he could play Hudd and Dembele at home. Sandro is great, but if we are struggling in the middle to get on the ball and play it quickly and accurately then Hudd is a very capable option. I think if AVB saw the middle as the problem then he would at least try and get Hudd involved a bit more at home.
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He's been awful in the last few games he's played for us.
He could play Dembele, Carroll and Sigurdsson in the middle of a 433 though. They should be able to create something between them.
Definitely agree dropping Sandro at home when he's not needed. Heck he could enough start right back instead of Walker.
 
Re: We can't we break teams down?

Spur of the moment said:
Whereas of course great teams like Barcelona NEVER struggle to break down teams that park the bus down (cough Chelsea, cough cough Celtic).
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Exactly. Sometimes it will happen. Against one of the best defences in Europe currently, it's even more likely too. Sometimes there is nothing you can do.
 
Re: We can't we break teams down?

charlietheyid said:
I said this in the other thread, we are much stronger in midfield with Sandro and Dembele blocking the midfield well and pressing well. We give them no space in the middle and that could mark the end of these long shots we use to concede leaving the opposition avance unattacked.

But that makes us lack creativity in the middle, they dont have that pass to break a defense down.

With Lennon doing nothing every game and Bale not so sharp at the moment, we just cant give service to defoe and Adebayor.

So maybe, with sandro and dembele, we need to play 4-5-1 with a n°10 in front of them and drop Ade as his form is awful.
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As opposed to Defoe who has offered a sweet FA in the last two matches?
 
Re: We can't we break teams down?

We don't pass the ball well in the final third. We don't cross to well either. And we lack some team coherence in attack. We rely on individual skill. What we need is to add quick pass and move tactics to of game.

1. Players need to be drilled in attacking formations so they know where other players will be, so almost without looking, they know the team mate will be on the overlap for a quick pass, or at the edge of the box etc. This doesn't really fit with our unpredictable dribbling. But if we can combine the two, as say manu or other top teams, we'll be at the races.

2. We need to be able to pass the ball better.

I think we're working on it. It looks like the coaching staff are aware of our passing deficiencies. There are signs of it improving.
 
Re: We can't we break teams down?

Stoke have one of the top ten defences in all of Europe this season.

This is not the game for some (not the OP) to start/continue an immature little strop about why everything isn't going the way they want.
 
Re: We can't we break teams down?

its a good question and its true we very not incisive in carving out the chances, nor clinical in finishing the little or even half chances that come our way.

the desire to score - that hunger and eye for goal is something we don't have as a TEAM. What we lack in individual quality we should make up with in teamwork... simple 1-2 passes that gazump the defence due to a moment of telepathic brilliance...one player near post the other far post intuitively; not both going for the same cross. strikers making false runs to create space for midfielders.

aside from teamwork a player determined to dribble directly to goal taking on defenders to cause mayhem or unlock space would also be useful - but you need a skillful and confident players to do this (suarez, aguero ...maybe tarrabt).

in yesterday's game I thought we were sorely missing Dempsey and the way he puts his body in between player and ball to draw the falls (real fouls, not simulations). not sure why AVB didn't think of using Dembele in a more forward role yesterday for this, and Thudd in a fulcrum type of position. i'd have left defoe out as he is pretty much useless in tight games (but is extremely dangerous in more open games, usually in the latter stages of most games).
 
Re: We can't we break teams down?

metalgear said:
its a good question and its true we very not incisive in carving out the chances, nor clinical in finishing the little or even half chances that come our way.

the desire to score - that hunger and eye for goal is something we don't have as a TEAM. What we lack in individual quality we should make up with in teamwork... simple 1-2 passes that gazump the defence due to a moment of telepathic brilliance...one player near post the other far post intuitively; not both going for the same cross. strikers making false runs to create space for midfielders.

aside from teamwork a player determined to dribble directly to goal taking on defenders to cause mayhem or unlock space would also be useful - but you need a skillful and confident players to do this (suarez, aguero ...maybe tarrabt).

in yesterday's game I thought we were sorely missing Dempsey and the way he puts his body in between player and ball to draw the falls (real fouls, not simulations). not sure why AVB didn't think of using Dembele in a more forward role yesterday for this, and Thudd in a fulcrum type of position. i'd have left defoe out as he is pretty much useless in tight games (but is extremely dangerous in more open games, usually in the latter stages of most games).
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The poor movement from crosses is painful to wach. Adebayor's header in the first half was a great run and a perfect cross from Vertonghen (or Bale?). However Defoe didn't anticipate what was happening, so he wasn't anywhere near had Ade decided to head it back or if Begovic had only parried it. I don't know if it's by instructions or if it's just his instinct, but he really should make the runs even though it means he won't be at the end of the through ball or cross. Earlier in the game Bale made a perfect low cross for the near post, which would've been perfect for Defoe had he only followed through the run to the near post.

I know Defoe has had som succes making a false run and then take a few steps back to make himself available for a shot, but it has become too predictable and defenders have started to carve out the cut-back crosses. IMO this is a pass that should fall to one of the midfielders that arrive late in the box.
 
Re: We can't we break teams down?

Golfball said:
Sorry this is the sort of rubbish that just gets spouted every time we cant score. "the players aren't clever enough" - lets give them football IQ tests in future shall we ?

There is no creativity - but there easily could be with this squad. Its just tactics and style of play.
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i don't agree with that, the Swansea game saw us create plenty - we were playing balls in behind the full backs for Lennon and Bale to run on to - we were playing neat passes around the center of the opponents box and working chances that way, we were crossing balls in to the box - much the same against Stoke yesterday, but the final balls/movement from the forwards weren't as good/Stokes defense were a lot stronger so getting the actual clear cut chance was more difficult
 
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We had over 20 attempts again yesterday, nearly every home game this season weve created this many or more
 
Another thing to say is that no matter who the coach is, sometimes they can't change the overall picture of what the players will produce. As Rossi says, we are a team built on getting it wide and crossing it quickly. AVB has tried to adjust that this season slightly, getting Bale and Lennon to tuck in centrally more, but at the end of the day as long as the entire squad is set up to play that way Stoke as they are will always be something of a bogey team because they are built to repel crosses. And if they show little ambition to attack themselves, they will outnumber us through the middle too. No amount of clever movement is going to break that down for definite, when it's facing the best team in Europe currently in terms of shutting up shop.

It's like Liverpool - no matter what style Rodgers has implemented they have the same old problem of not being clinical enough. The coach can't change everything until he has changed the players or at the very least had a good year or more to really change what they want to do on the pitch.
 
Too much dwelling on the ball in mid field. Lennon needs to be given the ball earlier. Lately there have been times when he has been open, but the pass has been delayed. I like to see Aaron receive the ball higher up the pitch than he is at present, he needs time and space to wind up and tthe momentum going.
 
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