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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

Discussion in 'Randomination' started by SpurMeUp, 19 Feb 2019.

  1. Gutter Boy

    Gutter Boy Tim Sherwood

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    Of course there's other solutions - just accept equivalence. The whole thing is designed to trap the UK permanently in the Eurosphere, to neutralise most of the benefits of Brexit. The EU is the only one threatening to build a border
     
  2. Grays_1890

    Grays_1890 Mitchell Thomas

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    yeh all good craic, well up for it
     
  3. r-u-s-x

    r-u-s-x Young-Pyo Lee

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    No -If we were confident there was a solution the backstop would be irrelevant. We are threatening No deal / WTO - that involves building a border.
     
  4. Rorschach

    Rorschach Terry Dyson

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    The main goal of the backstop is to prevent a part of the UK descending back into sectarian violence, and destroying an international treaty in the process. The spin that it is a dasterly EU trap is ERG propaganda for the guilible. The EU have offered aNI only backstop, so not much of a trap really, is it?

    Describe your alternative solution that has managed to elude everyone so far?
     
    monkeybarry likes this.
  5. r-u-s-x

    r-u-s-x Young-Pyo Lee

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    NI in the customs Union was the Tories first policy, its only when May failed to win a decent majority that they shifted their policy. But the EU is evil so they probably stopped May getting the majority.
     
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  6. wiziwig

    wiziwig Neil Ruddock

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    Yes, I agree with all of that , she were the remedy to all the madness caused by the unions..Just a shame that between the totalitarianism of both the trades unions and the globalist class, we were left without a manufacturing base and we, the tax payers, were left picking up the tab of an ever increasing welfare benefit cost that needed to be administered by an ever increasing public sector, both of which she said, she opposed and wanted to reduce!

    For me, Thatcher were all about prudence , sound management, family.. She put it out there that we should stand on our own two feet and not to have an over reliance on the nanny state..People wanted to buy rather than rent their homes, many people wanted to become self-employed rather than be an employee. All of that were good but her economic ideas which became to be known to us as Thatcherism, were nothing ingenious but simply just another debt driven economy..

    I don't know how old you're or when you started your business but I do remember the 80's, and I remember how for the first time youngsters as young as 18 were going into shops with this new thing in their wallets called, the credit card... Youngsters in work became credit card holders, both went hand in hand. First you got the job then you get yourself a credit card and have access to four figure sums. People were buying expensive goods such as cars, furniture , hi-fi, tv's and even holidays abroad on their credit cards, anyone could get a hire purchase agreement...

    The housing boom during the 80's was also largely encouraged with the idea that it's best to borrow now and on fixed terms as the interest rates were heading upwards...Inevitably, it were all resetted in the early 90's with a housing price correction averaging 20% across the country and as much as 35% in the South-East..

    A few years later a new boom bust cycle started again , culminating in the financial crash in 2007-08.....

    Don't get me wrong Capitalism can be good, is good, but sometimes it's all just a little bit Bernie Madoff.
     
  7. Gutter Boy

    Gutter Boy Tim Sherwood

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    We don't need a border because there's already the 100 year old common travel area. The only people calling for a border are the EU, to do their pointless 'tests' on goods. If they accept UK standards as equivalent to EU ones, that solves everything
     
  8. r-u-s-x

    r-u-s-x Young-Pyo Lee

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    how does that work when we are importing from all over the globe? American Chicken competing with EU drug free chicken, Mexican beef etc.
     
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  9. Rorschach

    Rorschach Terry Dyson

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    Pointless tests? That's your solution. Just fudge it. I'm guessing you are on a wind up.
     
  10. P.D.

    P.D. Mauricio Taricco

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    From what I've read if Boris wants it there's now no way to actually stop no deal, even if there's a vote of no confidence then Boris gets to set the date of a general election as PM which he could do after 31 October. It seems the only way out would be via a unity government if one could be agreed to get an extension ahead of a general election.
     
  11. SpurMeUp

    SpurMeUp Les Ferdinand

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    Who would actively 'want no deal'? It's not what was campaigned for, voted for, or in anyone's intersts. It is something that has evolved as a supposed option as the other Brexit options were understood (as being worse than staying in the eu). No one but no one campaigned or promised no deal. It was going to be easy to get a deal if I rember correctly.

    If you can be bothered to be rational and look at what no deal really means - you'd come to the conclusion it is the worst of all options for the UK. There probably wouldn't be a united kingdom by the end of it. We'd lose jobs and all become poorer. That's not scaremongering. Even Boris understands the pain no deal would cause. He's banking on the bluff getting a deal. But will it?
     
  12. Lost Mango

    Lost Mango Ramon Vega

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    The Common Travel Area has nothing to do with trade though does it?

    It is a freedom of movement concept (much like the one Brexiteers want rid of for the rest of the EU - is that cos the Irish are 'us' so OK whilst Eastern Europeans are 'other' so undesirable?)
     
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  13. Gutter Boy

    Gutter Boy Tim Sherwood

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    I meant you don't need a border for people, so the only purpose of the border is to check goods, which with any ounce of goodwill/effort to not be punitive could easily be done at the importer/exporter premises

    The CTA was a bespoke solution created to deal with Irish partition. I'm pretty sure it will end when Ireland is reunified. Imagine if the EU would allow similar creativity to solve a unique short-to-medium term situation
     
  14. Lost Mango

    Lost Mango Ramon Vega

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    It is slightly more than an Anglo-Irish thing as it includes the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands but when Irish reunification (hastened by Brexit and the increased likelihood of the dissolving of the Union plus the obvious demographic changes to NI) happens I'd agree thd CTA set up will have to change.

    Questions remain though if it is so easy to come up with a system that works a) why can no one give a clear guide on how it would work & b) why isn't it being used elsewhere so that it can just be copied? At the moment it is still just vague Witterings and pipe dreams and no concrete workable solutions or details.
     
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  15. Rorschach

    Rorschach Terry Dyson

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    People are not the real problem. They have passports.

    Hard brexit means hard border and all that ensues from that. Irrespective of who creates the hard border, the UK or Ireland, it will be an inevitability in the event of a hard Brexit as there is no technical solution that exists or will exist in any reasonable timeframe to create a 'max fac' solution. You cannot leave an open border from one customs area to another for a multitude of reasons. There has to be customs supervision at border or there will be massive customs fraud. There is recent experience in Ireland to base this opinion off. This is not an idea you should spend any more thought cycles on.

    The fallout from a hard Brexit in NI is far more significant than the economic consequences, which are frankly disastrous for the region. Politically it would ignite the powder keg again. It spills into considerations of direct rule from Westminster ( and the DUP's influence) and will cause so much bad faith with the EU, Ireland and the US (the Irish Americans are mobilising on this) as to poison all future negotiations. Pelosi has even weighed in on this topic. If the Uk screw Ireland on the Border then Ireland could very well veto every trade agreement with the UK going forward.

    As you say this may hasten the break up of the union and trigger a border poll. Maybe Scotland will follow suit. I just don't see BoJo as having the courage to be the one that breaks up the union.
     
  16. P.D.

    P.D. Mauricio Taricco

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    I have never said I want no deal though I do think it could be managed but would obviously cause huge short term pain. My preference is a free trade agreement, I have no penchant for 'no deal' for the obvious reasons. I was merely commenting on the weekend papers which are all discussing what could actually be done to stop it if Boris went ahead with it.
     
  17. scaramanga

    scaramanga George Hunt Staff Member

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    The EU has a number of borders and they all work pretty well. They've just managed to spin the rhetoric so that having a normal border in Ireland will somehow be the UK destroying peace.

    I say we tell the EU we won't be putting up a border in Ireland and leave it in their court. Make it loudly public too that we won't be putting up a border. Let's see if the EU has the balls to put one up and take the blame.
     
  18. nayimfromthehalfwayline

    nayimfromthehalfwayline Andy Thompson

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    Ive seen for myself growing up people actively taking a benefit lifestyle as a career job. Its easy, get knocked up really young, go cap in hand to the council and youre set for life. Alternatively, give yourself a diagnosis of depression/anxiety and youre away, if kids arent your thing.

    This all came up and exploded under Blair.
     
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  19. SpurMeUp

    SpurMeUp Les Ferdinand

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    Not sure it is an EU led thing. The backstop was invented by the UK government as a way to mitigate the dangers of destroying the good friday agreement. People in Ireland are very clear that a border is a symbol that would cause distress and and ignite some violence. If the UK wants to be outside the customs union, then you can't have a porous border where goods (and people) could move seemlessly from the EU into Britian. If that is what you want to happen - then stay in the stupid customs union!
     
  20. SpurMeUp

    SpurMeUp Les Ferdinand

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    "set for life" is how much exactly a week?
     
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