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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

Discussion in 'Randomination' started by SpurMeUp, 19 Feb 2019.

  1. thfcsteff

    thfcsteff Paul Stewart Staff Member

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    ...not one of your better retorts. The ginger/bingo wings one was much better!
     
    scaramanga likes this.
  2. nayimfromthehalfwayline

    nayimfromthehalfwayline Andy Thompson

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    I did not say she went into his home. At all. In your enthusiasm to jump on that high horse you didnt even read the post.

    I said HE is being treated as though he went into HER home and dragged her out. Such is the response (and just take a look at your effort the last page).

    This was a private function. With the Chancellor sat at the head table. It wasnt trafalger square and a cheese sandwich at lunchtime.

    She had no right whatsoever to be there. None. And after storming a PRIVATE function, you think she should have been afforded time and attention for a quick chat?!

    SHE HAD NO RIGHT TO BE THERE.

    And I also contest prior posts stating it as a peaceful protest. A peaceful protest is standing outside waving placards. What do you call it when someone storms into a venue and makes a direct run at the top table? Certainly not peaceful, on the spectrum of behaviours its far nearer "terrorism" than "peaceful protest".

    And then there is the double standard of it all. If it was a guy I guarantee the reaction would be completely different.

    Hows that for equality heh? Women are equal except theyre not.
     
  3. SpurMeUp

    SpurMeUp Paul Walsh

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    The MP and protestor's behavious is not really the issue here. Protestor went into private event the MP used greater aggression and force than was appropraite. Not really a massive issue as he just about held himself back from smacking her. What is more shocking is that people condone such agression against women from a public servant in high office; when another approach would have sufficed. If that is you, and you are comfortable with such violence against women, so be it.
     
  4. Grays_1890

    Grays_1890 Chris Armstrong

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    I just spat my coffee out at that.

    5 stars
     
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  5. the dza

    the dza Christian Ziege

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    Another Tory MP indicating that there are enough of them to mean that Johnson's government would lose a vote of no confidence to prevent a no-deal Brexit.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politic...y-coup-deal-brexit-tobias-ellwood-jeremy-hunt

    Tobias Ellwood, the junior defence minister, said it was possible that the decision by Johnson actively to seek no deal could push some Conservatives to support a no-confidence motion against his government.


    “I believe that absolutely is the case,” Ellwood told the BBC. “I think a dozen or so members of parliament would be on our side, would be voting against supporting a no deal and that would include ministers as well as backbenchers.”

    __________________

    I am looking forward to Johnson becoming PM and dealing with this sh1t.
     
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  6. scaramanga

    scaramanga Garth Crooks Staff Member

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    It wasn't meant to be amusing - it's just accurate.

    If she wants to attend events at Mansion House then she has the option to do as the rest of us do and become a valued contributor to society. Subsequently, if she wants her voice and/or opinion heard at such events then she can become a recognised expert in her field and get invited to speak. From there she can spout whatever nonsense she wishes. Until then, her opinions belong on placards somewhere out of the way of all of the important people.
     
    Grays_1890 likes this.
  7. scaramanga

    scaramanga Garth Crooks Staff Member

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    It's no more than a threat. Even Conservative MPs have the intelligence to understand how much more damage a Corbyn government could and would do.
     
  8. the dza

    the dza Christian Ziege

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    You hope...
     
  9. scaramanga

    scaramanga Garth Crooks Staff Member

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    There's always the backup of intelligent Labour MPs. When we're talking such small differences you don't need many.
     
  10. Gilzeantoscore

    Gilzeantoscore Milija Aleksic

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    They're Tories, they're entitled, they can do what they like....
     
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  11. Grays_1890

    Grays_1890 Chris Armstrong

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    Said like he did so just walking down the street to a woman minding her own business.

    The last part in bold is just spin to make people feel bad about the view. However I am able to split the two, I have never and would never strike a woman am hugely against domestic violence, however this was not, she was invading somewhere she shouldn't and in a climate where the is a high risk of attacks on political figures from the worse of Jo Cox to the latest of milkshake gates, we can all sit here with the power of hindsight and say "I would have done this and done that" or "did they have any weapons" etc etc but thats all crap, no one can sit and say how they would have reacted because you didn't live the moment so any other hindsight filled reactions would be disingenuous
     
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  12. Robspur12

    Robspur12 Vedran Corluka

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    Gatecrashing is probably a less OTT description than Storming I agree she shouldn't be there. Just how you remove her is the only disagreement.
     
  13. nayimfromthehalfwayline

    nayimfromthehalfwayline Andy Thompson

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    I understand that. I would ask though - how well do you suppose someone handle that situation when they havent been trained in how best to do so?

    You have clearly had that training and know a lot better, but I can tell you that I havent - and theres every chance were I to try and stop someone getting past me that it would probably end up being quite clumsy and heavy handed.

    Without the intent to hurt or be violent, just trying to stop someone and remove them - chances are it would be a lot like what happened with Field.

    There is a huge difference between what he did and him being some sort of woman beating violent treasure cave, and to be honest I feel like people are really blurring the lines between the two.

    Yes, he could have handled it better. No, I dont think the response to what happened is at all proportional/appropriate. And yes, I think that is in very large part because she was a woman, were it a guy I cannot imagine the same posts being made her (and response in the press/from Labour etc).
     
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  14. Grays_1890

    Grays_1890 Chris Armstrong

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    Post of the week
     
  15. Robspur12

    Robspur12 Vedran Corluka

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    That's absolutely not the case. I have been in highly charged situations as have many of my former colleagues and we have not reacted with force unless absolutely necessary. If Jo Cox is your benchmark for interactions between protesters, members of the public and MPs or the famous we are going to have a lot of over reactions.
     
  16. Robspur12

    Robspur12 Vedran Corluka

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    Mate he needed to call for someone to have her removed. They would have done it. The threat thing is flim flam. There were none of the usual threat factors associated with Islamic or far right terrorism and the climate change protests have not been violent.
     
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  17. Grays_1890

    Grays_1890 Chris Armstrong

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    You know it as flim flam as you have hindsight that's all
     
  18. SpurMeUp

    SpurMeUp Paul Walsh

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    ...and I agree with most of that. But this is a little contradictory: you’re "hugely against domestic violence" but think violence is okay in this context?

    Yes, we cut people some slack because they don't have experience/training. But doesn't mean society should condone his actions as okay. He should be and was suspended. Scara said he wouldn't have acted with the same agression. What is so hard about saying his actions (agression/force) were not appropraite and he should have handled it better? But hey helps pass the time until we sign someone :)
     
    Last edited: 24 Jun 2019
  19. ricky2tricky4city

    ricky2tricky4city Steve Carr

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    With the backdrop of modern times and heightened awareness around attacks and attackers and the many forms and varaitions they come in ......

    In that situation, do you ask questions before intervening?

    Its probably no? And most likely sensible not to ask questions? Its a private function/building and the person that has entered the room has somehow done so without permission and has evaded security.

    So you deal with her physically. You have a moment, a very short moment to react and and choose your course of action, you almost dont choose, its reactionary/instinctive.

    It does look a little heavy handed BUT the circumstances should trump that and i would add that due to the split second nature of the reaction he still didn't end up punching her, rugby tackling her or any act that would have the potential to cause her injury or harm. He grabbed her and frog marched her out of there, in much the same way someone who is 'allowed' to eject someone might do. He grabbed the neck, someone trained might grab the upper arm and jam the arm up the back (actually more chance of injuring someone this way). She might have some finger mark bruising, that is all.

    Technically it could be assault. But no matter who you are (man or woman ), put yourself in that situation, somewhere you shouldnt be, with something to say, then don't be surprised if that, or more, happens.

    I don't know who the fella is, so handily wont bring that into whether i think it was right or wrong. And if it was a man that needed tackling, would he have done it? Quite simply we don't know.
     
  20. ricky2tricky4city

    ricky2tricky4city Steve Carr

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    If im at a dinner function and a lady comes in and is causing a bit of a scene i'm rubberknecking.

    BUT If i'm a politician and the chancellor etc are there and that happens, i'm way more nervous in that situation.
     

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