Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

[StephenH]

our elected government.

 

[Rorschach]

Brexit isn't the point and I know plenty of remainders who are unhappy at the constant attempt to use technicalities and lawyers to undermine the work of our elected government.

Brexit sure is the point. And the pesky technicalities and lawyers is otherwise known as the law.

 

[SpurMeUp]

What we need to remember about Brexit, if it goes through:

1. Years of negotiations will follow with parliament tied up, endless discussions about all the detail. Brexit will never be "done"...it will go on and on.

2. More rest of the world immigrants, as we need to fill the fruit picking, nursing etc roles. More red tape for employers who need these migrant workers.

3. A much much slower exit from Austerity, and generally a poorer UK, than if we remained. This is not my idea, that is our government projections for all types of Brexit. We would have ended Austerity were it not for Brexit, but now under Boris we're going backward increasing the debt we owe.


Thank goodness for being able to make our own trade deals! [emoji295]️ They will make it all worthwhile [emoji23]


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

 

[Gutter Boy]

1. Years of negotiations with parliament tied up, and endless discussions.

Making the country better is well worth it. Restoring sovereignty will actually give parliament back the power to make big changes

2. More rest of the world immigrants, as we need to fill the fruit picking, nursing etc jobs

Only if we keep on your neo-liberal course. Automisation and redistribution of labour (4 day working week) will solve those issue better

3. A much much slower exit from Austerity, and a generally poorer UK, than if we remained. No my idea, that is our government projections for all types of Brexit.

A slowly shrinking economy is desirable if population stabilises

 

[SpurMeUp]

Making the country better is well worth it. Restoring sovereignty will actually give parliament back the power to make big changes



Only if we keep on your neo-liberal course. Automisation and redistribution of labour (4 day working week) will solve those issue better



A slowly shrinking economy is desirable if population stabilises

What would you cut first as tax receipts - money into our government - also slows? 'Brexit Austerity' Could it be a thing? If UK national debt pushes borrowing above £100bn, and the total national debt rises to 90% of GDP that is bad news. We can't keep borrowing 10s of billions a year indefinitely, the chickens will come home to roost eventually.

“The Government is now adrift without any effective fiscal anchor,” said IFS director Paul Johnson, who claims the predicted debt crisis could result in further cuts to public spending.

“You could well be on an upward spiral of debt and deficit, and in a world in which we have to go through another period of austerity to undo it,”


But it's okay...we get to spend years trying to replicate (let alone better) our 70 odd EU free trade agreements, which will make it all worthwhile.

 

[scaramanga]

Brexit sure is the point. And the pesky technicalities and lawyers is otherwise known as the law.

It wasn't the law before the SC decided to give itself powers it didn't already have without any checks or balances.

Neither is it the law for the speaker to collude in daily treason.

 

[Parklaner81]

Protip:

If you find yourself on the same side of an argument as David Lammy, change your mind before everyone thinks you're a clam.

I had similar thoughts when I kept finding myself on the same side as George Galloway in referendums, but I had to dismiss them - not even that could convince me to vote remain.

 

[StephenH]

Restoring sovereignty will actually give parliament back the power to make big changes

Christ now you are really scaring me.

 

[Rorschach]

It wasn't the law before the SC decided to give itself powers it didn't already have without any checks or balances.

Neither is it the law for the speaker to collude in daily treason.

It might not be the law but it is hilarious

 

[Gutter Boy]

What would you cut first as tax receipts - money into our government - also slows? 'Brexit Austerity' Could it be a thing? If UK national debt pushes borrowing above £100bn, and the total national debt rises to 90% of GDP that is bad news. We can't keep borrowing 10s of billions a year indefinitely, the chickens will come home to roost eventually.

“The Government is now adrift without any effective fiscal anchor,” said IFS director Paul Johnson, who claims the predicted debt crisis could result in further cuts to public spending.

“You could well be on an upward spiral of debt and deficit, and in a world in which we have to go through another period of austerity to undo it,”


But it's okay...we get to spend years trying to replicate (let alone better) our 70 odd EU free trade agreements, which will make it all worthwhile.

First thing I would cut would be spending on unnecessary pharmaceuticals. Social prescribing and compulsory annual medicals for everyone would save massively on healthcare expenditure

Free trade is evil. Fair trade is what we need to be looking towards. I would be looking to impose balance of payment restrictions - ie aim for self sufficiency, only importing equal to what we export

 

[Gutter Boy]

Christ now you are really scaring me.

I genuinely think the reason there is no talent at Westminster is I) because there's no power over anything meaningful - that all sits in Brussels and II) because there's no money in it (MPs are paid about the same as deputy head teachers on Monday morning ecstasy comedowns)

By repatriating power and increasing pay, I think better talent will be drawn from the corporations

 

[StephenH]

With the financially corrupt Tories holding sway we are in brick street!

 

[Craig_J]

I genuinely think the reason there is no talent at Westminster is I) because there's no power over anything meaningful - that all sits in Brussels and II) because there's no money in it (MPs are paid about the same as deputy head teachers on Monday morning ecstasy comedowns)

By repatriating power and increasing pay, I think better talent will be drawn from the corporations

You think the likes of Jacob Rees Mogg don’t have enough power or pay? Even if the salary they receive doesn’t compare to what they can get in the private sector - they can use their power to deliver Brexit and will surely bathe in the economic gains they will make from having their multi million investments aligned with whatever a post-Brexit Britain brings.

I’m not sure it’s ever been asked before whether people are put off from becoming MPs because they are not paid enough - except by those already sitting as MPs lining their own pockets and pillaging public finances with their expense claims for whatever superfluous extravagance takes their fancy.

 

[Legohamster]

It’s really quite depressing this is going to be life for the next 10 years or so.

Endless Negations
Told you so’s
Blame

Urgh relentless.

 

[SpurMeUp]

First thing I would cut would be spending on unnecessary pharmaceuticals. Social prescribing and compulsory annual medicals for everyone would save massively on healthcare expenditure

Free trade is evil. Fair trade is what we need to be looking towards. I would be looking to impose balance of payment restrictions - ie aim for self sufficiency, only importing equal to what we export

At least you acknowledge that Brexit and impacting the economy has connotations for spending. Most seem blissfully unaware of this government's forecasts - a 5%+ loss to our GDP. That is significant. Maybe there is an upside to Brexit that will win some of it back - no one can tell you how tho. Which means it is highly unlikely. Net effect - a poorer UK. A longer austerity, possibly permanent austerity.

What do we spend on Pharma then? Wouldn't annual medicals for healthy fit people be a waste?

 

[SpurMeUp]

I had similar thoughts when I kept finding myself on the same side as George Galloway in referendums, but I had to dismiss them - not even that could convince me to vote remain.

Out of curiosity what would? Maybe rank in order of importance:

• Avoiding UK job losses
• Stopping the UK being a poorer nation
• More immigrants from RoW
• Years of Brexit nonsense snarling up our parliament so real things like education and health take a back seat.
• The lack of a post-Brexit vision.

No one has outlined how the UK prospers with more barriers to free trade. How will controlling laws on trade, worker rights and environmental concerns (current EU laws) lead to us being more prosperous and making up for the losses in free trade with teh EU? Losses of investment into the UK as well. Without free trade into the EU many companies won't invest into the UK. Like Sony who moved their HQ to Amsterdam from London. Or all the car firms who will likely move into the EU for free access to the EUs free market.

The only way I can see people supporting Brexit is if they don't fully understand its ramifications. Breixt was successfully sold to you on control - controlling UK borders, controlling UK laws - but the reality of Brexit concerns trade, jobs and the economy. It was missold to lead people to believe it was about UK control. Actually brexit will bring about UK loss - economically speaking. Again, not me, just our government and every other economist's projection that brexit means less wealth for the UK - for everyone.

How can you back something that harms our nation? Genuinely mystified.

 

[Gutter Boy]

You think the likes of Jacob Rees Mogg don’t have enough power or pay? Even if the salary they receive doesn’t compare to what they can get in the private sector - they can use their power to deliver Brexit and will surely bathe in the economic gains they will make from having their multi million investments aligned with whatever a post-Brexit Britain brings.

I’m not sure it’s ever been asked before whether people are put off from becoming MPs because they are not paid enough - except by those already sitting as MPs lining their own pockets and pillaging public finances with their expense claims for whatever superfluous extravagance takes their fancy.

Raising salaries makes it more meritocratic. At the moment only those with independent wealth/other income can afford to go into politics (why we have millionaires' cabinets).

It's the same with say law and fashion - the requirement to do years unpaid at the start fills those sectors with people born into money, rather than those with the most talent.

 

[Gutter Boy]

At least you acknowledge that Brexit and impacting the economy has connotations for spending. Most seem blissfully unaware of this government's forecasts - a 5%+ loss to our GDP. That is significant. Maybe there is an upside to Brexit that will win some of it back - no one can tell you how tho. Which means it is highly unlikely. Net effect - a poorer UK. A longer austerity, possibly permanent austerity.

What do we spend on Pharma then? Wouldn't annual medicals for healthy fit people be a waste?

'Growth' as an indicator doesn't measure anything other than how quickly we are burning dinosaurs. If population is exploding, growth is unstoppable. If population is stable, growth shouldn't be happening, and for environmental reasons should be shrinking. Less consumerism is a great thing. There are better measures of wealth (e.g. free time)

Medicals mean early diagnosis, which mean much cheaper and more successful treatment. It will shift mindset from cure to prevention. End our shameful cancer diagnosis in A&E situation.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Out of curiosity what would? Maybe rank in order of importance:

• Avoiding UK job losses
• Stopping the UK being a poorer nation
• More immigrants from RoW
• Years of Brexit nonsense snarling up our parliament so real things like education and health take a back seat.
• The lack of a post-Brexit vision.

No one has outlined how the UK prospers with more barriers to free trade. How will controlling laws on trade, worker rights and environmental concerns (current EU laws) lead to us being more prosperous and making up for the losses in free trade with teh EU? Losses of investment into the UK as well. Without free trade into the EU many companies won't invest into the UK. Like Sony who moved their HQ to Amsterdam from London. Or all the car firms who will likely move into the EU for free access to the EUs free market.

The only way I can see people supporting Brexit is if they don't fully understand its ramifications. Breixt was successfully sold to you on control - controlling UK borders, controlling UK laws - but the reality of Brexit concerns trade, jobs and the economy. It was missold to lead people to believe it was about UK control. Actually brexit will bring about UK loss - economically speaking. Again, not me, just our government and every other economist's projection that brexit means less wealth for the UK - for everyone.

How can you back something that harms our nation? Genuinely mystified.

Even if you like free trade, Brexit is more barriers to 15% of the world but less barriers to the other 85%

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

'Growth' as an indicator doesn't measure anything other than how quickly we are burning dinosaurs. If population is exploding, growth is unstoppable. If population is stable, growth shouldn't be happening, and for environmental reasons should be shrinking. Less consumerism is a great thing. There are better measures of wealth (e.g. free time)

Medicals mean early diagnosis, which mean much cheaper and more successful treatment. It will shift mindset from cure to prevention. End our shameful cancer diagnosis in A&E situation.

GDP is now irrelevant as true measure of the state of the economy. Wage share of GDP is more apt.