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OMT - Tottenham Hotspur vs Smoggies in FA Cup

Discussion in 'Spurs News & Views' started by SteveAWOL, 3 Jan 2020.

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Man of the match

Poll closed 7 Jan 2020.
  1. Alderweireld

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. Aurier

    40.0%
  3. Moura

    53.3%
  4. Son

    6.7%
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  1. elltrev

    elltrev Neil Sullivan

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    In Poch’s first 5 seasons it was about £34m. Whereas under Klopp’s first 4 seasons it was 95m-123m (depending on whether you include summer 2015, just before Klopp started I believe). And those numbers are helped by the disproportionately large Coutinho fee.

    We then spent £62m net this summer, but unfortunately I think it was too late after 5 years of minimal spend.
     
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  2. Jordinho

    Jordinho Tony Marchi Staff Member

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    Not to mention how much getting rid of Coutinho improved them. Win-win really.
     
  3. Finney Is Back

    Finney Is Back Paul Stalteri

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    That completely ignores their £100 million bigger wage bill. Two of their decent signings we wanted but didn't match Liverpool's wage offer.
     
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  4. Pirate55

    Pirate55 The Last Man Standing 17/18

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    The average is low under Poch because we bought 26 ( yes 26 ! ) players. It was quantity over quality. The real failure though is that so few kicked on. And only Winks out of our promising youth academy has established himself ( Tactics Tim introduced Kane to the first team).
     
  5. Pirate55

    Pirate55 The Last Man Standing 17/18

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    In retrospect ( and hindsight is a wonderful thing) , if we had bought half the number of players we did ( say 13), theoretically we could have paid twice as much and paid them double for the same overall cost.
     
  6. Finney Is Back

    Finney Is Back Paul Stalteri

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    That's what happens when you want (e.g.) Mane and get (e.g.) N'Koudou though.
     
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  7. glasgowspur

    glasgowspur Pat van den Hauwe

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    So there was no improvement in Kane or dele?
     
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  8. billyiddo

    billyiddo Gary Stevens Staff Member

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    I find it amazing that we managed to go from a 5th 6th place team before he arrived to a 2nd 3rd place side diring his time here whithout buying good players, developing youth or improving the players already here.
     
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  9. glasgowspur

    glasgowspur Pat van den Hauwe

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    Yes, went from getting spanked against City, Liverpool, utd, arsenal and Chelsea to not only beating them in one of ganes but finishing above them in the league.
    But we never improved, you couldn't make that up.
     
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  10. Pirate55

    Pirate55 The Last Man Standing 17/18

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    I am not saying Poch didn't improve our first team. Clearly he did. My point is that ( outside the first X1) he largely failed to improve the many players we bought or our bright academy prospects.

    Levy's business model assumed we had a fantastic coach and if young prospects were bought he would improve them. Then we could either sell them on at a profit or they would be assets in our first team. Same with the academy. Sadly, it didn't happen.
     
  11. Finney Is Back

    Finney Is Back Paul Stalteri

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    Not really. As its not like all 26 were always in our squad. There was an element of wheeling and dealing there, especially when Poch was having to make do with a cheaper player he didn't really want.

    I said it a million times in the Poch/New manager threads but will say again Typically the clubs with the biggest wage budgets win all the trophies. It's a simple idea as the best (pdoven) players earn the biggest salaries. You can probably get away with being transfer fe misers if you have the biggest wage bill (I.e. you can keep Walker instead of having to sell and replace with inferior Trippier) but its almost impossible to have sixth biggest wage bill and 6th to 8th biggest transfer budget and expect to keep on outperforming the market.
     
  12. billyiddo

    billyiddo Gary Stevens Staff Member

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    No excuse Poch should be expected to turn water in to wine
     
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  13. glasgowspur

    glasgowspur Pat van den Hauwe

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    So are you admitting now that Levy made some of the 26 buys you keep quoting.

    What about Dier then, or son. Did they not improve?
     
  14. Finney Is Back

    Finney Is Back Paul Stalteri

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    Welcome to the business model of all but about 9 or 10 clubs in the World!
     
  15. Bishop

    Bishop Bobby Mimms

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    It's not exactly skewed, they knew for at least 6 months if not earlier that Coutinho intended on leaving and knew that he would be going for a big fee. In that time they then bought Salad, VVD and Ox for a combined net of £18m in comparison to the fee they then banked for Coutinho.

    Liverpool having been running excellent transfer business for the last 5 years, if we look at the figures they have been able to achieve for fringe players it is frankly remarkable.

    Could we have done the same? Well yes I think we could have done similar to a smaller extent. If we accept that cashflow was poor due to the stadium build then we could have sacrificed one of our stars and maximised a selling figure and reinvested that to keep the lifeblood of the squad fresh. We had players at the time that I believe would have been of interest to others and who were mainly system players who would be relatively replaceable.

    Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Fapatalk
     
  16. Pirate55

    Pirate55 The Last Man Standing 17/18

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    I do not believe Levy buys/bought players without the managers sanction. To do so would be beyond foolhardy and in no ones interest.

    Do you actually read my posts? I said that Poch improved our first XI . His failure was not to develop a squad or enhance our youth prospects. Hence, the poor predicament we now find ourselves in. The first XI are stalled and stale ( to put it mildly) and we have a squad of inadequate players to replace them.
     
  17. billyiddo

    billyiddo Gary Stevens Staff Member

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    We could have done similar and i believe it's exactly what Poch was calling for if we look back at the quotes he made around the time of his painful rebuild one (think there was something refering to selling players some may consider key?) we know he didn't get what he was asking for.

    Ultimately having proven himself a more than capable manager in his first 3-4 seasons the club didn't back him in what he was requesting, whereas after 2-3 years at Liverpool the club bought Klopp world class players to shore up his calamitous defence and the rest is history.

    Klopp and Liverpool are the perfect example of what should have happened at Spurs : manager proves himself > gets backed > success, whereas ours was more like : manager poves himself > doesn't get backed > failure.

    There's a pretty clear and obvious lesson to be learned there
     
    Last edited: 8 Jan 2020
  18. billyiddo

    billyiddo Gary Stevens Staff Member

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    Just to add that we're now in a position where we have to back his successor quite big in the market before he has even proven himself here at the club, which is opening ourselves up to further problems.
     
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  19. billyiddo

    billyiddo Gary Stevens Staff Member

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    Also worth noting that prior to backing/not backing Poch and Spurs were outperforming Klopp and Liverpool (with less to work with too)
     
  20. SteveAWOL

    SteveAWOL Paul Robinson

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    Hopefully the fact that Levy has wanted Mourinho to be Tottenham’s manager for over a decade means that José will have better luck in persuading our chairman to back the manager in transfer market... not as if Levy can use the stadium build as an excuse for shopping in the bargain bin any more.
     
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