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*** OMT Tottenham Hotspur v Some european team ***

SpurMeUp said:
I agree the subs at the end just weaken us further where we were already vulnerable. Ironically it was Bayern who were missing a man in midfield. THey bought on Thaigo at HT. Then we were the team missing a man in the middle. Easy to sit here afterwards and say Poch shouldn't have subbed Winks for Lamela, when we did look capable of getting more goals.

Poch has never been masterful at changing things during the game. Or seeing things clearly. He's better post-game, where maybe a team dissects the performance. And he usually reacts in the right way.
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I have to disagree. I think he used to be nice and flexible and it would work: matching Chelsea's back five during the unbeaten WHL season and winning a tight game; using Dier's flexibility to give us on field options.

Now i think its a shambles and he's learning nothing from each poor performance and defeat. In fact, his entrenching himself further and further and stubbornly refusing to correct glaring bad decisions. Even the players he selects are questionable.
 
That was just humiliating. A decent 30 mins then the recurring stupid mistake before half time again - do our players have the memories of goldfishes ?
Second half we were all over the place. Sloppy, no protection for the defence, looked like headless chickens.
Not sure what Poch does from here. I don’t want him to go but he’s really got to do a full post mortem on his current tactics and make changes.
If he doesn’t like the players questioning him directly (eg Jan being dropped for arguing tactics) then Hugo needs to step up as captain and represent the players (assuming of course the players are unhappy with the way they are being told to play).
And the players themselves need to take some responsibility.
So much for the clear the air talks that happened a few weeks back.
There an awful lot of bad stuff in the air right now.

Utterly humiliating.
 
Raziel said:
- The tactical setup was poor, the opposition came with a strategy to play against it, i.e. sit back, compress, invite our press and hit over the top. Was clear from first 10 minutes, yet we never adapted.
- I agree with the pairing, we have Son, Lucas, Kane, Dele, Lamela but no pairs or strikers who seem to help/complement each other.
- Winks is not good enough for the role we ask him to play, one or two games where he played well doesn't change that.
- The FB's went full AVB on us tonight, overcommitted, out of position, leaving the CB's completely exposed.
- No idea what Dele has done to get the nod tonight over Lamela or Lucas.
- Opposition was clinical

Bad formation, failure to realize player limitations, persistence with something that hasn't been working, failure to adapt.

This one sits on Poch and it will cost him.
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- Poch will not survive another beating like this, even if it's City.
- Winks is better in slower games when he has way more time. And the opposition doesn't press the man on the ball. As is any midfielder. He had no chance today.
- It's easier to be clinical when the defenders are already on their way to the showers. From 4-2 out I can't remember seeing us worse at the back. The 6th (or 7th) when they with two moves left three of our defenders clumped together in a group hug were utterly embarrasing.

I don't want to hear any excuses from Poch, because there aren't any. Move on, show on the pitch that you've learned something from this, and if you think someone fails to uphold the rigidity of your dear gameplan - if you even have one - bench them. Or spank them, I don't care. I used to love it when teams attacked us (except Liverpool), because we were better than most and had attitude and morale. Now I fear it.
 
SubZero said:
- Poch will not survive another beating like this, even if it's City.
- Winks is better in slower games when he has way more time. And the opposition doesn't press the man on the ball. As is any midfielder. He had no chance today.
- It's easier to be clinical when the defenders are already on their way to the showers. From 4-2 out I can't remember seeing us worse at the back. The 6th (or 7th) when they with two moves left three of our defenders clumped together in a group hug were utterly embarrasing.

I don't want to hear any excuses from Poch, because there aren't any. Move on, show on the pitch that you've learned something from this, and if you think someone fails to uphold the rigidity of your dear gameplan - if you even have one - bench them. Or spank them, I don't care. I used to love it when teams attacked us (except Liverpool), because we were better than most and had attitude and morale. Now I fear it.
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I don't think he survives this one mate .. people forget who Levy is (and this is the one instance where the money doesn't matter)
 
Two things Bayern did that we should learn from.

1. The way they got back into a tight defensive formation. They left no space, the whole team in the last third. We don't look as strong doing the same. Our shape is not as good when we try to sit-in - see their goal at the end of the first half. We tried to see out the half, but just gave them the initiative.

2. Their passing. Was so impressive. We weren't bad with our passing, but we are on an inferior level. Our players have to wait for the pass to arrive, or take a couple of steps in the wrong direction to collect.

Rather than the result, what is disheartening is that we haven't progressed. We haven't been able to build on last season, and we don't seem to have found out best setup. But I am patient. Was always going to be a transitional season. Settling in at NWHL, and a number of players changing. We need to give Poch time to get it right. He needs to rebuilt and have us come back stronger and playing in a way that can beat Bayern. I have full confidence in him.
 
That 30 minutes really wasn't good, it's desperation to try and talk it up as a positive from the game.

We looked dangerous in attack, with numbers going forward, and had a few chances.

We were so horrifically open and Bayern could easily have punished us much earlier.

It wasn't good at all. It was the same shambles we saw throughout the game, we just didn't get properly caught out at that point.

Worst performance I've seen under Poch.

Worst performance I've seen from Poch.

Wish I could say it was a one off and c'est la vie, but we've been heading toward this game for a long time...
 
SpurMeUp said:
Two things Bayern did that we should learn from. 1. The way they got back into a tight defensive formation. The left no space, the whole team in the last third. We don't look as strong. Our shape is not as good when we try to sit-in - see their goal at the end of the first half. We tried to see out the half, but just gave them the initiative.

2. Their passing. Was so impressive. We weren't bad with our passing, but we are on an inferior level. Our players have to wait for the pass to arrive, or take a couple of steps in the wrong direction to collect.

Rather than the result, what is disheartening is that we haven't progressed. We haven't been able to build on last season, and we don't seem to have found out best setup. But I am patient. Was always going to be a transitional season. Settling in at NWHL, and a number of players changing. We need to give Poch time to get it right. He needs to rebuilt and have us come back stronger and playing in a way that can beat Bayern. I have full confidence in him.
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Mate, we have never conceded 7 at home, in 137 years … and we have had some pretty brick teams in that time.
 
SpurMeUp said:
Two things Bayern did that we should learn from.

1. The way they got back into a tight defensive formation. They left no space, the whole team in the last third. We don't look as strong doing the same. Our shape is not as good when we try to sit-in - see their goal at the end of the first half. We tried to see out the half, but just gave them the initiative.

2. Their passing. Was so impressive. We weren't bad with our passing, but we are on an inferior level. Our players have to wait for the pass to arrive, or take a couple of steps in the wrong direction to collect.

Rather than the result, what is disheartening is that we haven't progressed. We haven't been able to build on last season, and we don't seem to have found out best setup. But I am patient. Was always going to be a transitional season. Settling in at NWHL, and a number of players changing. We need to give Poch time to get it right. He needs to rebuilt and have us come back stronger and playing in a way that can beat Bayern. I have full confidence in him.
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I agree with most of this but every season seems to be a transitional season, we've been in the stadium long enough for the "new" factor to disappear and this was supposed to be the season where everyone had had a full summer off and was refreshed. It's clear that these problems go back to last season where the performances were just as bad, the defence has been poor for a while now and needs a serious revamp.
 
I know that there is not going to be much enthusiasm for this but any MotM nominations? We've got Ndombele and Son so far.
 
fernadez said:
Why is it so random, certain players don't have to play their way into form, some it doesn't matter etc

Not having a pop at the player but selection at times seems to be based on favoritism more than anything.
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Yeah it's very strange. Also Moura always seems to get dropped after putting a good performance, while others can be rubbish every week.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
Wish I could say it was a one off and c'est la vie, but we've been heading toward this game for a long time...
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Yep. It's either a turning point or the beginning of the end.



I remember the final days of Gooner Graham, The Mullet, AVB, the likes of Pleat and Harry and Kevin Bond and Clemence and Livermore and Ossie and Hod and Sherwood...by the end you are fine with losing 6-0 because it means once and for all the chairman HAS to act and cut the problem out of the club.

Sometimes enough is enough and you either need a major change in formation/tactics/form/ belief et cetera, or a new boss
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
That 30 minutes really wasn't good, it's desperation to try and talk it up as a positive from the game.

We looked dangerous in attack, with numbers going forward, and had a few chances.

We were so horrifically open and Bayern could easily have punished us much earlier.

It wasn't good at all. It was the same shambles we saw throughout the game, we just didn't get properly caught out at that point.

Worst performance I've seen under Poch.

Worst performance I've seen from Poch.

Wish I could say it was a one off and c'est la vie, but we've been heading toward this game for a long time...
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Agreed, I think they realized pretty early on that they could shift gear and see us off. They lured us into a trap. Then again while they were comfortably the better team, had the game ended at half time I would have been slightly optimistic on our behalf. A couple of their early goals were real beauties, even with poor defending. The rest was just pure humiliation.
 
I can see why he would walk but I can’t see why we would sack him. Purely because one party is emotional and the is functional.

Brighton is a must win!
 
Raziel said:
Mate, we have never conceded 7 at home, in 137 years … and we have had some pretty brick teams in that time.
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Yet it's one result. We scored 2 and were in the game at 2-4. Personally I judge on the performance. I'd prefer us to try and level the game and lose by more than stick at 2-4 to save face. Maybe that's just me.

P.D. said:
I agree with most of this but every season seems to be a transitional season, we've been in the stadium long enough for the "new" factor to disappear and this was supposed to be the season where everyone had had a full summer off and was refreshed. It's clear that these problems go back to last season where the performances were just as bad, the defence has been poor for a while now and needs a serious revamp.
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I know what you mean. There is a feeling that maybe we are coming to an end of the Poch era. His abilities are good but he's not at the Guardiola, or that clam at liverpool's level. He doesn't seem to be as masterful on team shape. Or changing things in game. Mind you it is easy to say now. But Bayern added Thaigo at HT, and from there we seemed to lose the midfield battle.

Statistically, there is a new stadium effect. In the first season teams do suffer. Not sure the few games at the end of the last season are enough to offset that.
 
Bullet said:
Yep. It's either a turning point or the beginning of the end.



I remember the final days of Gooner Graham, The Mullet, AVB, the likes of Pleat and Harry and Kevin Bond and Clemence and Livermore and Ossie and Hod and Sherwood...by the end you are fine with losing 6-0 because it means once and for all the chairman HAS to act and cut the problem out of the club.

Sometimes enough is enough and you either need a major change in formation/tactics/form/ belief et cetera, or a new boss
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Same here I don’t even feel any anger tonight, I had that for two days after losing to Colchester, I will never ever want us to lose but from now on unless something drastically changes tactically and performance wise to give me something to cling on to every loss is one step closer to putting us out of our misery and getting back on track with a new manager.
 
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