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Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

Bedfordspurs said:
That’s a scewed number
You would need to compare that with how long we we were behind too
It doesn’t factor in when neither side was ahead
Click to expand...

FWIW...

173 minutes in the lead vs 536 minutes behind (and 461 minutes level) in CL games last season

Inter (a) ahead for 33 minutes, behind for injury time
Barca (h) behind for 88
PSV (a) behind for 9, ahead for 32
PSV (h) behind for 76, ahead for 1
Inter (a) ahead for 10
Barca (a) behind for 78
Dortmund (h) ahead for 43
Dortmund (a) ahead for 41
Emirates Marketing Project (h) ahead for 12
Emirates Marketing Project (a) behind for 72, ahead for 1
Ajax (a) behind for 75
Ajax (h) behind for 50, ahead for injury time
Dippers (n) behind for 88 minutes

https://www.soccerstats.com/leagueview.asp?league=cleague_2019
 
Jurgen the German said:
I don’t agree with that at all. They averaged more possession per game than us IIRC. Yes they get plenty of crosses into the box but when you have Robertson and Alexander-Arnold then why wouldn’t you? The Trippier who was good at crossing used to do that for us with great effect.

His Dortmund side certainly weren’t a long ball side either, they were anything but.
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Their possession owes more to their press than their ability to keep the ball. His Dortmund team were a carbon copy of his Victimpool team.
 
SteveAWOL said:
FWIW...

173 minutes in the lead vs 536 minutes behind (and 461 minutes level) in CL games last season

Inter (a) ahead for 33 minutes, behind for injury time
Barca (h) behind for 88
PSV (a) behind for 9, ahead for 32
PSV (h) behind for 76, ahead for 1
Inter (a) ahead for 10
Barca (a) behind for 78
Dortmund (h) ahead for 43
Dortmund (a) ahead for 41
Emirates Marketing Project (h) ahead for 12
Emirates Marketing Project (a) behind for 72, ahead for 1
Ajax (a) behind for 75
Ajax (h) behind for 50, ahead for injury time
Dippers (n) behind for 88 minutes

https://www.soccerstats.com/leagueview.asp?league=cleague_2019
Click to expand...

See
It’s a really scewed number unless you have all the facts

Pool also were behind a lot last season and won it
 
Bedfordspurs said:
See
It’s a really scewed number unless you have all the facts

Pool also were behind a lot last season and won it
Click to expand...

FWIW...

Ahead for 541 minutes vs behind for 219 minutes (level for 410)

PSG (h) ahead for 53 minutes
Napoli (a) behind in injury time
Belgrade (h) ahead for 70
Belgrade (a) behind for 68
PSG (a) behind for 77
Napoli (h) ahead for 56
Bayern (h) 0-0
Bayern (a) ahead for 34
Porto (h) ahead for 85
Porto (a) ahead for 72
Barca (a) behind for 74
Barca (h) ahead for 83
Spurs (n) ahead for 88
 
scaramanga said:
I'd say pretty much every manager is more thinky than Klopp. He has one style - hoof and charge. He gets away with it by having three really, really good forwards to hoof to, but his style is incredibly simplistic - the layers of complexity between them and Barca/City (IMO the ideal) are huge and players are likely to take a long time to adapt when they have to.
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I don't think Klopp would have gotten the results he has at Mainz, Dortmund and now Liverpool without being "thinky".

He has his style, it's a good style, but he's managed to build several excellent teams. Lost loads of key players at Dortmund, but did well for a long time. Lost Coutinho at Liverpool, but they've only improved.

Regularly improves players and gets a lot out of players that other managers get much more limited value out of. As a quick comparison look at Firmino and Lewandowski as strikers, not at all similar player types, both massively successful with him as their manager, both working extremely well in his style, but through different means. I don't think that happens because he's not thinky.

Excellent manager, unfortunately at Liverpool.
 
fernadez said:
Who said anything about hoof balls in the air? You can't make up an argument to then dispel it.
Click to expand...
Well I’d be interested in what your definition of a hoof is - as far as I’m aware it’s always been a long punt in the air, but if you know it to be different I apologise:D....
 
braineclipse said:
I don't think Klopp would have gotten the results he has at Mainz, Dortmund and now Liverpool without being "thinky".

He has his style, it's a good style, but he's managed to build several excellent teams. Lost loads of key players at Dortmund, but did well for a long time. Lost Coutinho at Liverpool, but they've only improved.

Regularly improves players and gets a lot out of players that other managers get much more limited value out of. As a quick comparison look at Firmino and Lewandowski as strikers, not at all similar player types, both massively successful with him as their manager, both working extremely well in his style, but through different means. I don't think that happens because he's not thinky.

Excellent manager, unfortunately at Liverpool.
Click to expand...

Getting Coutinho out was crucial to fully develop their current style IMO.
 
Just done some analysis on the ratios of short to long passes, based on WhoScored data. Here's last season:

upload_2019-9-19_12-55-19.png

So it's true that Klopp is no Pep or Sarri, but he's hardly a hoof merchant (as per some of the hyperbole on here). Seemingly more focused on short passing than us, too.

Pre-empting the rightful point that we were far from our best last season, here's the same analysis from 16/17 - our peak under Poch:

upload_2019-9-19_12-57-20.png

So overall, some indicative evidence that Scara's claims are overblown ( :eek: ).
 
scaramanga said:
I'd say pretty much every manager is more thinky than Klopp. He has one style - hoof and charge. He gets away with it by having three really, really good forwards to hoof to, but his style is incredibly simplistic - the layers of complexity between them and Barca/City (IMO the ideal) are huge and players are likely to take a long time to adapt when they have to.
Click to expand...
I actually think that Liverpool changed their style a little last season compared to the year before when they were very much a team that pressed like crazy for as long as they could sustain it but had nothing else.

Last season I saw them combine their manic pressing style with periods in the game (or even whole games) where they would look to soak up pressure and counter attack. I also saw them play decent football to work their fullbacks forward a lot more in support last season as opposed to always going long and diagonal for the wider two in the front three to get on the end of. Of course when they are winning a game or the opposition are overcommitting forward is makes sense for them to play the ball in behind for Sane and Salah as it both exposes the opposition's over commitment forward and successfully relieves pressure as those two wide players often get to the ball first.
 
elltrev said:
Just done some analysis on the ratios of short to long passes, based on WhoScored data. Here's last season:

View attachment 7235

So it's true that Klopp is no Pep or Sarri, but he's hardly a hoof merchant (as per some of the hyperbole on here). Seemingly more focused on short passing than us, too.

Pre-empting the rightful point that we were far from our best last season, here's the same analysis from 16/17 - our peak under Poch:

View attachment 7236

So overall, some indicative evidence that Scara's claims are overblown ( :eek: ).
Click to expand...
I was really baffled by some of the things I was reading in here over the last few days. There seemed to be some idea that we play better football than Liverpool that is clearly not the case, some idea that our CM are comparable in recieving and playing the ball (before this season) again absolutely not the case. I'm glad there are some people on this forum who aren't absolutely blinded by fan loyalty.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Fapatalk
 
Finney Is Back said:
I actually think that Liverpool changed their style a little last season compared to the year before when they were very much a team that pressed like crazy for as long as they could sustain it but had nothing else.

Last season I saw them combine their manic pressing style with periods in the game (or even whole games) where they would look to soak up pressure and counter attack. I also saw them play decent football to work their fullbacks forward a lot more in support last season as opposed to always going long and diagonal for the wider two in the front three to get on the end of. Of course when they are winning a game or the opposition are overcommitting forward is makes sense for them to play the ball in behind for Sane and Ham Salad as it both exposes the opposition's over commitment forward and successfully relieves pressure as those two wide players often get to the ball first.
Click to expand...
For me, their ability to do that relies heavily on taking the lead early.

They do so often because they fly out of the blocks and out-manic the other side. When they don't then I think they tend to struggle even more than we do.
 
Jordinho said:
Getting Coutinho out was crucial to fully develop their current style IMO.
Click to expand...
Especially as the funds were diverted to replace the ridiculously poor keeper and bringing in Van Dijk.

Perhaps the strength of their style is its simplicity. Even though you know what they are going to do it still seems to be working for them more often than not. The only threat I see is if they lost Van dijk for a while, or two if the front 3.
 
elltrev said:
Just done some analysis on the ratios of short to long passes, based on WhoScored data. Here's last season:

View attachment 7235

So it's true that Klopp is no Pep or Sarri, but he's hardly a hoof merchant (as per some of the hyperbole on here). Seemingly more focused on short passing than us, too.

Pre-empting the rightful point that we were far from our best last season, here's the same analysis from 16/17 - our peak under Poch:

View attachment 7236

So overall, some indicative evidence that Scara's claims are overblown ( :eek: ).
Click to expand...
I'm not sure that's really indicative of anything.

Take these two hypothetical teams, for example.

Team 1, let's call them ScreechyAttentionSeekingVictimclamsJFT39 FC. They play the ball across the back 4 with no attacking intent whatsoever for 19 passes, then lump the ball to the far corner to, let's call him CheatingDivingAnti-Semiticclam, who scores.

Team 2, let's call them FilthyGarishNewOilMoney FC. They play the beautiful game, passing the ball all around the pitch in lovely, one-touch football. In the process of their 20 pass move, they ping the ball from one wing to the other 4 times in order to stretch the opposition out of shape.

Team 1 has a long:short ratio of 1:19
Team 2 has a long:short ratio of 4:16
 
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