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Politics, politics, politics
- Thread starter markysimmo
- Start date
Won't happen imo. A couple of remain Tories have said they'd do whatever is necessary, (inferring they'd bring the government down) to avoid it. They won't be alone.
Grays_1890
Colin Calderwood
In the real world, lets look back over every general election and look at what was voted for, the result and the manifesto and see if there are three green lights to match, its rare.
Like I said earlier I voted for Brexit like any election, you take parts from all over and you make an informed decision but do I wantto be a part of the mechanics and making that work or do I want to be a politician to make it work, no I dont, no more than when I vote for a government based on making the NHS work, don't baffle me with science, do the work your public has voted for you to do.
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
To revoke it will need another referendum, they wont just unilaterally decide to do so.
OR - itll be a mandate on the manifesto of a party running in a general election.
IMO.
And I dont think the EU will extend unless there is a change in leadership, and of course itll cost us.
Which leads me back to thinking a lot has to happen in the next 8 or so weeks...
Like r-u-s-x I think its more case of apathy than anger.
My opinion of course, but I think many who voted leave and had high hopes of the potential of it will have had them dashed by the abject performance of our government since. In both their "negotiations" with the EU and their inability to hold their own party together. Its been a bloody embarrassment and I do believe many a leave voter would now vote remain if given another shot.
There will always be more extreme types who will no doubt cause some trouble, but IMHO they will be in the minority.
I highly doubt carnage on the steets.
Baleforce
Ron Henry
Are they brave enough to do anything though, it feels like everyone is waiting for someone else to fix it.
Grays_1890
Colin Calderwood
Lets see, we can mark this conversation for future.
Rorschach
Sonny Walters
What did you vote for? What is your version of brexit?
I agree. This is why I think the best compromise is the Norway+ option favoured by a majority of MPs (according to Tory Nick Boles on telly earlier). The vote was to leave the EU. As long as that is done, then that's it. If we join EFTA afterwards, if we have a customs union afterwards, if one of the terms of EFTA is free movement, so be it. We will still have left the European Union and that is all that was on the ballot. This is what our MPs would rather deliver than a no-deal Brexit, so they should just get on and do it.
Do you not think lying about a single issue is different to a manifesto? I do, I understand if you do not.
Baleforce
Ron Henry
That may actually have been easy (relatively) had May not thrown up the ridiculous red lines.
Grays_1890
Colin Calderwood
What lie are you ref to?
Grays_1890
Colin Calderwood
And lets get it straight I never thought it was going to be easy or a click of the fingers and its done, so all this back and forth and bedlem till we get there was gonna be part of it, so I don't blink with it. Anything worth doing is worth the hard work.
100% agree. Let's hope MPs like Boles are true to their word and that they will throw her (and the government) overboard rather than see us crash out with no deal. Unless of course, for her own survival, she changes course.
the only reason I said to revoke is so we didnt get no deal via the backdoor, I was suggesting revoke only to allow GE / vote if we could not reach an agreement to extend. - it takes 6 months + for a referendum:
https://constitution-unit.com/2018/...t-take-to-hold-a-second-referendum-on-brexit/
What is required for a referendum to be held in the UK?
- Legislation – Primary legislation is needed to provide the legal basis for the referendum and to specify details that are not in standing legislation, including the referendum question, the franchise, the date of the referendum, and the conduct rules for the poll (although the latter two are often ultimately left to secondary legislation).
- Question testing – The Electoral Commission has a statutory duty to assess the ‘intelligibility’ of the referendum question, a process that usually takes 12 weeks.
- Preparation for the poll itself – The Electoral Commission and local officials need time to prepare for administering the poll and regulating campaigners. The Commission recommends that the legislation should be clear at least six months before it is due to be complied with.
- Regulated referendum period – The UK’s referendum legislation – the Political Parties, Elections and Referendums Act(PPERA) – specifies a minimum 10-week campaign period, during which campaign regulation applies.
Right, but as you said yourself, it's up to the MPs to sort it now. If they sort it via soft-Brexit (which seems to be the only deal that could get through Parliament), then that is a fair outcome.
No deal was positioned as project fear by the Leave campaign,
reading back the leave position was not clear but using the http://www.voteleavetakecontrol.org/why_vote_leave.html we are not in control of our own laws (backstop) would be a big one.
This version of brexit bears no resemblence to the one that was being campaigned on though.
* it sounds like i am trying to change your mind, i am not, I can see why you have come to your conclusions.
Grays_1890
Colin Calderwood
I voted to leave the EU because I ultimately felt that we no longer needed to have a large part of our interests controlled by pen pushers at the EU. I think there are a large number of opportunities to leaving.
I feel that the EU has served is purpose for us, like anything there is a time when you move on, our time in the EU is only a small stitch on the tapestry that makes up our history.
We are the 5th largest economy in the world which for me is an opportunity to trade more freely with the world considering 94% of our business is not trading in Europe. You go around the world and countries outside the EU who are huge customers or potential customers believe in independant Britian. Australis is a tiny economy and they managed to negotiate huge deals globally in just over a year.
Only five per cent of GDP is involved in cross-border trade in goods with EU countries and only 12 per cent overall if you include services. The majority of our trade is with the rest of the world.
Although the bus slogan was seen as a lie I didnt see it as a promise more of a point of view, I took it as "We send money abroad lets spend that here" and I do as horrible and selfish as that sounds believe in that side of coin.
Is the EU a success? I don't think it is an economic success story, a union of red tape and taxation which I think its time to move on from. The EUs growth rate is lower than our and unemployment rates amoungst its members is horendous.
Thats where I stand and why I wanted out, feel free to pick the bones out of it but ultimately I believed and still believe our long term future is out the EU.
Grays_1890
Colin Calderwood
Out of interst why do you think that is?
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
Tories and neo-liberalism only became associated by Thatcher in the late 70s. The longer-standing one nation tradition, and the wing that May comes from, is much more protectionists/Keynesian.