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OMT....Saudi Sportswashing Machine Rovers V Tottenham Hotspur.... OMT

Serge simply brainfarts. Of the things he did Saturday which annoyed me the most, it was the persistent cheap possession he gave up. They were lapses of concentration, as if his brain jumps out of sync for a second or two and he makes a simple yet silly decision. IF Poch could simply get him to cut those out, he could develop into one hell of a player. But right now, I am not seeing it. The shame of it is you can see moments of sublime quality; the cross was superb.

I was under the impression when we bought him that he was a pacy overlapping full back a la Walker. Sadly he has disappointed on nearly all counts - and his defending is often kamikaze. He doesn't appear to have enough of the basic raw materials that Poch can work on ( i.e. Speed, Strength and Physical Presence ) to succeed here.
 
We were very very lucky yesterday. Far too many sub par performances. Apart from Hugo and Verts, difficult to think of anyone who had a good game. And it was Saudi Sportswashing Machine ffs! We need to improve dramatically. We really can't afford yet another slow season start.
 
I thought Moura gave the weakest performance of the starting XI.

Being at the ground, Sissoko was pretty good for me, certainly for the opening 70 mins and then he started to wane along with the rest of the team.
There is definitely an undercurrent with the fans as @BrainOfLevy says. He was given hospital passes at times and there were groans when he lost it or he was tackled - yet if Sissoko had made that same pass instead of say Dier or Eriksen he'd be getting pelters for the pass.
I do think Dembele is a cut above and ideally that's what we'd like to see in CM. But for me Sissoko performs a role pretty well and I'm fine with him starting as and when needed.
 
I think the positive here is that yes, we did play terribly, yet we still beat Saudi Sportswashing Machine away. We quite clearly have fitness and injury issues, but those can and will change, in the mean time we’ve got 3 points in the bank from a potentially tricky away game.
 
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He’s averaging 30 appearances a season. He started yesterday and we had two MF’s on the bench.

He’s also been a regular for France from u21 onwards.

At Toulouse and Saudi Sportswashing Machine he was almost ever present.

If he’s simply last man standing what kind of disaster has befallen the 30ish million men eligible for les bleus?

Last season when Winks, Wanyama and Dembele were all out long term?

Two MFs on the bench not fit to start?

Couldnt give a toss about Saudi Sportswashing Machine or Toulous.

Im pretty sure he didnt go to the World Cup
 
Last season when Winks, Wanyama and Dembele were all out long term?

Two MFs on the bench not fit to start?

Couldnt give a toss about Saudi Sportswashing Machine or Toulous.

Im pretty sure he didnt go to the World Cup

So he’s trusted to be rotated in.

I’d assume Amos was fully fit to be included, you might be right though.

It shows others have trusted him.

He was in the larger provosional squad and played in qualifiers, as far as male French footballers go, he’s rated in the top 50 at least.
 
Seems like the detractors have their own Sissoko scale. Does a perfectly normal job - 4/10.

I’m just watching the game back as we speak. So far, 20 mins in. Couple of times he’s tried to make a forward pass and it got incercepted. Decent run in the first 2 minutes winning that free kick. More than one time he’s been found in a flowing move and been used to release someone else down the right. Many times the defence have played out to him and lo and behold he’s found a team mate afterwards. And it sounds like I’m being facetious, it’s because these are the exact criticisms he gets accused of not being able to do. I’m expecting major, major fudge ups over the next 70 mins to justify how he was rated on here. To me, he has so far looked like a perfectly serviceable member of the team. I’ve seen Moura get tackled 4 times already, half not his fault, half probably were. I’ve seen Sanchez head the ball downwards directly to a Saudi Sportswashing Machine player directly in our half. I’ve not actually seen Kane touch the ball. And yes, people mentioned these players weren’t great, but they get a lot more rope. And as always, I’m arguing Sissoko, as one of our players, deserves the same amount. As always, the criticism he gets is way outsized based on the reality of his performance.

I also think part of Poch’s coaching is to get specific improvements out of players that end up being quite noticeable. So Dele’s versatility, Sanchez getting more comfortable playing the ball out into riskier areas. I saw Moussa hit a pinpoint cross field pass from right to left this summer in San Diego and wouldn’t be surprised if we start seeing him attempt riskier stuff. I’m sure, like last season, it will be about 6 months before he gets recognised for doing anything better (the tide is slowly turning, and more people seem to be recognising he is actually fine, but it takes time)

No, they really dont - thats the entire point. People judge him as a member of the team. He consistently shows he is below their level as a footballer. People point this out. You jump on them. It is not the people that dont rate him who have a special scale, it is you.

Just as, you arent the only one who can see his merits. They are there for all to see - its just you seem to be the only one who thinks its enough, and rather willfully refuse to accept any criticism with any weight, while lauding his basic strengths as somehow significant.

And it is basic strengths, as in - the very least we should expect from one of our players. He offers nothing to this side that every other player doesnt already*. They all offer more though.

And this is bourne out over 3 seasons now, as you say. 3 seasons of never showing he has more in him. Simply being somewhere between acceptable/didnt noticably rooster up and downright awful.

Other players get more rope because all of them, to a man, have shown they have far more in them - and played to a much higher level with more consistency.

He isnt "fine". He is noticeably the worst footballer in our team pretty well every time he plays. Even on days where he doesnt make an obvious error he is slowing play, out of position, not making runs and generally being something of a handicap. It is noticeable when he isnt there how much more fluid and coherent the side is.

And thats the crux of the whole matter. I applaud your desire to back the player, but no one is really hating on him to the degree your campaign is warranted. They are all just pointing out what we have seen this whole time.



*I know youre going to mention his physical strength - and yes he might well be the best in this regard. However, its by a fine margin, certainly not in a significant way.


I was trying to be somewhat magnanimous...but it’s very obviously on here as well. It isn’t imagined. He gets outsized criticism compared to the reality of his performance. It’s as clear as day and isn’t imagined. I really don’t know how you can actually argue that fact.

You have built up a whole imaginary situation where by there are people just hammering at him for no reason, all over the place. A tidal wave of abuse from all sides...

and then you see a post that has a pop at him (often somewhat tongue in cheek) and its confirmation bias, "See! Im right! Sissoko must be defended against this grave injustice!!"

Yeah, people have a pop, but they also have a point. Scara is among the worst on here for being somewhat hyperbolic in his put down of Sissoko - but if you ignore the obvious bait youll see he has a reasoning for that view and backs it up. Try taking the point - not the hype. And try not reading it through a "every one hates Sissoko" lens.
 
So he’s trusted to be rotated in.

I’d assume Amos was fully fit to be included, you might be right though.

It shows others have trusted him.

He was in the larger provosional squad and played in qualifiers, as far as male French footballers go, he’s rated in the top 50 at least.


When the choice is rookie player making his debut or Sissoko, is there even much of an argument?

When it came down to it they didnt take him, did they? For all the times Deschamps support of him has been used to validate some sort of quality about him - when it counted he wasnt trusted, was he?
 
When the choice is rookie player making his debut or Sissoko, is there even much of an argument?

When it came down to it they didnt take him, did they? For all the times Deschamps support of him has been used to validate some sort of quality about him - when it counted he wasnt trusted, was he?

The argument is that Sissoko has no footballing ability, so if a “real footballer” is available surely they got the nod irrespective of age.

He played in the last EC final, he was trusted then.
 
We were poor but its the result that matters, Saudi Sportswashing Machine are a awkward team for us is terms of results. I am pretty sure they have won more of our games against them in the Prem then we have.
 
My argument is that’s he’s a legitimate premier league footballer with attributes of value and that he is graded on a curve against others in our squad.


The premier league has a huge range in quality within itself, to argue he is a premier league level player is not to necessarily say he is a Spurs level player.

I dont think he is graded unfairly against others in our squad, I think the point is that the squad is of such a level, he simply doesnt match up.

Yes, he has some things he is useful for. For some thats more than enough, for others not.
 
No, they really dont - thats the entire point. People judge him as a member of the team. He consistently shows he is below their level as a footballer. People point this out. You jump on them. It is not the people that dont rate him who have a special scale, it is you.

Just as, you arent the only one who can see his merits. They are there for all to see - its just you seem to be the only one who thinks its enough, and rather willfully refuse to accept any criticism with any weight, while lauding his basic strengths as somehow significant.

And it is basic strengths, as in - the very least we should expect from one of our players. He offers nothing to this side that every other player doesnt already*. They all offer more though.

And this is bourne out over 3 seasons now, as you say. 3 seasons of never showing he has more in him. Simply being somewhere between acceptable/didnt noticably rooster up and downright awful.

Other players get more rope because all of them, to a man, have shown they have far more in them - and played to a much higher level with more consistency.

He isnt "fine". He is noticeably the worst footballer in our team pretty well every time he plays. Even on days where he doesnt make an obvious error he is slowing play, out of position, not making runs and generally being something of a handicap. It is noticeable when he isnt there how much more fluid and coherent the side is.

And thats the crux of the whole matter. I applaud your desire to back the player, but no one is really hating on him to the degree your campaign is warranted. They are all just pointing out what we have seen this whole time.



*I know youre going to mention his physical strength - and yes he might well be the best in this regard. However, its by a fine margin, certainly not in a significant way.




You have built up a whole imaginary situation where by there are people just hammering at him for no reason, all over the place. A tidal wave of abuse from all sides...

and then you see a post that has a pop at him (often somewhat tongue in cheek) and its confirmation bias, "See! Im right! Sissoko must be defended against this grave injustice!!"

Yeah, people have a pop, but they also have a point. Scara is among the worst on here for being somewhat hyperbolic in his put down of Sissoko - but if you ignore the obvious bait youll see he has a reasoning for that view and backs it up. Try taking the point - not the hype. And try not reading it through a "every one hates Sissoko" lens.

People quite literally say he cannot control and pass the football under no pressure. Even smart, normally balanced posters say that. And it’s nonsense. It is not imaginary. I honestly don’t know how you can argue it - it’s blatantly obvious.

I was engaging with Scara last night on his points. Apparently Obertan getting 470 PL minutes over 2 years is the equivalent of Poch consistently picking Sissoko. And then apparently ‘we would struggle if we ever had to pick him against a decent side’, to which I then listed the good wins he had started in last season, to which I get ‘they were in spite of him’. It’s just ridiculous.

My ‘campaign’ is to see him rated as the 6 or 7 out of 10 player that he usually is, rather than the 4/10 a lot of people consistently make him out to be. It is a weird undercurrent of looking for any opportunity to hammer the guy, when he is our player and deserves our support.
 
My argument is that’s he’s a legitimate premier league footballer with attributes of value and that he is graded on a curve against others in our squad.

This is the issue though with Poch, that his method of grading is overly influenced by someone's attitude and how they work in training. It takes precendent over ability.

It proves to be an incorrect policy because overall taking all his attributes into account, Sissoko is a Derby county / Ipswich town level player, worth around £8.5m who should be earning about £25k pw.

Players of that level should not be in the team, even if they are willing to give the manager a blow job.
 
This is the issue though with Poch, that his method of grading is overly influenced by someone's attitude and how they work in training. It takes precendent over ability.

It proves to be an incorrect policy because overall taking all his attributes into account, Sissoko is a Derby county / Ipswich town level player, worth around £8.5m who should be earning about £25k pw.

Players of that level should not be in the team, even if they are willing to give the manager a blow job.

Technical ability is no more important than physical and mental attributes imo
 
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People quite literally say he cannot control and pass the football under no pressure. Even smart, normally balanced posters say that. And it’s nonsense. It is not imaginary. I honestly don’t know how you can argue it - it’s blatantly obvious.

I was engaging with Scara last night on his points. Apparently Obertan getting 470 PL minutes over 2 years is the equivalent of Poch consistently picking Sissoko. And then apparently ‘we would struggle if we ever had to pick him against a decent side’, to which I then listed the good wins he had started in last season, to which I get ‘they were in spite of him’. It’s just ridiculous.

My ‘campaign’ is to see him rated as the 6 or 7 out of 10 player that he usually is, rather than the 4/10 a lot of people consistently make him out to be. It is a weird undercurrent of looking for any opportunity to hammer the guy, when he is our player and deserves our support.

And very often, he cant. And very often it takes him 3 or 4 touches to manage to get the ball under control. If someone says he cannot control the ball, this is what they are talking about - nobody has said he quite literally, exclusively, can never ever control a ball. Whats nonsense is to argue as if thats the case.

Ive seen his first touch be so bad he has had to chase it up the pitch, many times. Criticising his control is completely valid.

The same with his passing. Yes, of course, he is entirely capable of finding a decent pass - and yet - he very often passes like brick. Under hit/over hit/out of play/straight to the opposition...

And I know your first response "Well all players do that... (most likely with examples)" but this misses the point because you are trying to deal in absolutes.
Which is telling, by the way, when an argument has to be resorted to a binary thing - its already been lost.

Yes, all players have a bad touch, miss a pass etc. All players do it every game - Ill even say that before you. NONE, in our squad, have done it with the frequency/regularity of Sissoko though. And this is where we come back to that scale - comparing him to his team mates - he is very poor in these areas.

Hence people say "He cant control the ball", obviously not as an absolute, but as shorthand for "His control is reliably very poor, especially compared to the level of our other players, even if he sometimes has a good touch".

As much as you like to look to Poch consistently picking him, I think its plainly obvious its never by preference. Its always as a "well half my midfield is missing" or "Its only Newport and I want to rest people" option. That in itself speaks volumes.

7/10? No, almost never. Ive seen it in him maybe a few times. He is 5-6/10 for me. Bang average at best, and yet worse quite often as well.

He has improved in his time. He is a more regular 5-6 now, his first season was regularly lower.

7/10 though? Thats a high bar for him. If hes a 7/10 then the rest of the team are 9/10 and 10/10 every game, which Im sure you will agree is rubbish.


Nobody is looking for opportunity to hammer him, thats your weird lens that you read everything through. Ive no doubt if Sissoko played a genuine blinder - by SPURS standards, those "hammering" him would be utterly delighted. Yet Im also sure you have already convinced yourself the opposite is true and are already arguing against the perceived injustice.
 
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