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Sick sick world what is wrong with people

robp135 said:
My cousin was one of the many Spurs fans smashed up by Seville police in 2007 because they assume every British football fan is intent of causing trouble when most are there to just support their teams. 20 years on and we have been able to limit the travel of those who caused the most problems and the reputation of British football fans has at least improved to the point where we would not get hit with batons for Robbie Keane chants.
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But the way they got to that point eventually and fairly was revoking travel of those fans who were proven trouble, policing the individual not the mass, by not assuming all Spurs fans were trouble. Unless I am reading it wrong and I could well be, your way of dealing with it would be the opposite??? Also if not it goes back to Luton point, how the hell do you police it when not everyone is the same, regardless where they come from. You can't just assume someone is going to marry their cousin based on where they come from otherwise we would have cut off the access route to Canvey Island years ago (joke for anyone who may be from the reclaimed land)
 
MartyFunkhouser said:
But the way they got to that point eventually and fairly was revoking travel of those fans who were proven trouble, policing the individual not the mass, by not assuming all Spurs fans were trouble. Unless I am reading it wrong and I could well be, your way of dealing with it would be the opposite??? Also if not it goes back to Luton point, how the hell do you police it when not everyone is the same, regardless where they come from. You can't just assume someone is going to marry their cousin based on where they come from otherwise we would have cut off the access route to Canvey Island years ago (joke for anyone who may be from the reclaimed land)
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You can pinpoint the regions where the most extreme religious elements exist and focus on those with stricter protocols. You won't get everybody but it would have some level of impact.

I used the example of vaccines not just because of our previous debate but because I was required to get some additional vaccines as part of my Visa approval. I would have been refused entry in to the US had I not provided the documentation showing I had got them even though I had already lived in the US on a student visa for several years.
 
robp135 said:
Its been discussed in great detail in the rest of the thread. I would read that before responding.
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Indeed, just saw it (was replying in flow).
Essentially you appear to be pointing out the different degrees of belief within faiths, religions, and societies. Some are extreme takes. I think we all sadly accept that. You are suggesting that it is perhaps 'easy' to filter the more 'extreme' thoughts defined as such by our societal definition. In theory, if I could quietly refuse entry to members of (say) a violent extremist group annexed from a religion, great. In practice? Virtually impossible, not the least of which because sadly, due to the atrocities and loss suffered globally on a daily basis, more extremists are created where there were previously none. Imagine your home being bombed, your family decimated, when all you want is to live your life! Survivors stand a huge chance of becoming radical. Sadly unsurprising; we can't even go three pages here without anger breaking out!!!

Polarization is the greatest of enemies. The more we run and hide, the more we cry differences, the less we understand what we have in common versus not, the more extremism wins (and with it fat cats getting fatter).

I am all for proper immigration controls. I am all for keeping bad people and influences out. Equally, I think it is VITAL we recognise the ENORMOUS amount of richness immigration and multi-culturalism brings. We all have much to learn. I agree with those who say when moving here it is important to integrate, but equally that should be a balance. We can never forget the lands we 'took' and the cultures we 'appropriated'. We should, IMO, never stop trying to come together where possible.

This is obviously an enormous subject, but for me, when agents of fear and hate look to actively polarise people off the back of disgraceful isolated acts of violence, we must resist, we must be brave and we must double down.

Fear is a mindkiller...
 
thfcsteff said:
Indeed, just saw it (was replying in flow).
Essentially you appear to be pointing out the different degrees of belief within faiths, religions, and societies. Some are extreme takes. I think we all sadly accept that. You are suggesting that it is perhaps 'easy' to filter the more 'extreme' thoughts defined as such by our societal definition. In theory, if I could quietly refuse entry to members of (say) a violent extremist group annexed from a religion, great. In practice? Virtually impossible, not the least of which because sadly, due to the atrocities and loss suffered globally on a daily basis, more extremists are created where there were previously none. Imagine your home being bombed, your family decimated, when all you want is to live your life! Survivors stand a huge chance of becoming radical. Sadly unsurprising; we can't even go three pages here without anger breaking out!!!

Polarization is the greatest of enemies. The more we run and hide, the more we cry differences, the less we understand what we have in common versus not, the more extremism wins (and with it fat cats getting fatter).

I am all for proper immigration controls. I am all for keeping bad people and influences out. Equally, I think it is VITAL we recognise the ENORMOUS amount of richness immigration and multi-culturalism brings. We all have much to learn. I agree with those who say when moving here it is important to integrate, but equally that should be a balance. We can never forget the lands we 'took' and the cultures we 'appropriated'. We should, IMO, never stop trying to come together where possible.

This is obviously an enormous subject, but for me, when agents of fear and hate look to actively polarise people off the back of disgraceful isolated acts of violence, we must resist, we must be brave and we must double down.

Fear is a mindkiller...
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I agree with a lot of what your saying here.

Where I would disagree is I do think, especially with the developments in technology, we can do a much better job at knowing who is coming in to the country and who is not. If we don’t know, we should not be letting them in. Especially if you are here as a male without a family.

My question back would be who is responsible for the lands we took? Most of that was before we were born. Most of the country objected to the war in Iraq. Most of the US objects to the war with Iran. Their involvement in WW2 wasn’t even popular at the time. Why is it on the citizens of those countries?
 
robp135 said:
My question back would be who is responsible for the lands we took? Most of that was before we were born. Most of the country objected to the war in Iraq. Most of the US objects to the war with Iran. Their involvement in WW2 wasn’t even popular at the time. Why is it on the citizens of those countries?
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Its not about it being on those citizens but it has to come with a level of understanding. Not to go deep on Gaza, but it only stands to reason that what is going on is going to create a displacement of people, thats going to impact everywhere eventually as is Iran and whats happening in the Middle East. I don't see a huge level of objection to that TBH, in large part the actions seems to be supported, thats not to say people then deserve what comes after or its their responsibility, but the question is "what do you expect".......

Not to sound like a hippy, we all have a responsibility to how the world is being shaped
 
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