Who would you sell?

[StephenH]

Moura & Bergwijn

If its a choice budget-wise between Bergwijn and Dele then there is no choice.

 

[Raziel]

It’s good question as it must be what Levy and Mourinho are discussing right now. It may come down to the offers on the table, so this might be why Dele is the chosen one as I’m not sure the others would command a big fee. I also think the other 3 would all be seen as useful bench options, which is what they are for us. Bergwijn has the most potential but is also unproven in the league so far, Lamela is a disruptive rather than creative player with a poor injury record and Moura is a hard working pace merchant who is at his best when counter attacking. If Dele would be sold I’d expect he’s be going into a first team with a manager who would accommodate him as a support striker in the hope he can get 20 goals a season again.

It's money as you said ..

- Lamela and Lucas would get a mid range fee, probably down a little due to the Covid market, and more likely to accept a rotation spot.
- Dele would still be a good fee, plus out of the others, his wages are probably highest as well

Alli at his best had a better scoring rate than Son has for us i believe and if we move to a tactic where Kane is supplying two other forwards then there is scope for him to regain his goal scoring form as he would thrive off of the type of balls that have been played the last few games - having Bale+Son+Alli in rotation for the two positions off of Kane is a healthy situation to be in.

If we buy a back up for Kane we can then keep whichever one of Lamela Moura or Berwijn that your boat (Lamela for me) may even be room for two of them if they are content being back ups.

Not really, their records for PL total for us are initially similar (with Son having much more sub appearances), overall Son outscores Alli quite a bit (90 in 234 vs. 62 in 224), looking at significant seasons (double figure in PL, over 15 all up), Son is way ahead again. Looking at the records in detail has pushed me even further on Dele being the one to go, Bergwijn as the potential, with Lucas/Lamela as rotation

If you take Alli out of the equation we look light in goals imo, outside of KBS - obviously he's out of sorts in that respect but Moura Lamela and Bergwijn offer as little goal threat at the top of their game as Alli does whilst off of his - so for me the focus should be on getting him back firing in the second striker role. Do that and we save ourselves a lot of money and give our attack some genuine strength in depth.

Not disagreeing with his obvious role being off Kane and being a goal threat, issue is Jose seemingly wants a striker, not a AM in a ST role .. which then gets us back to the first point, if it's money/budget/impact. he's the odd man out.

 

[Bishop]

Moura, Sissoko, Aurier, CCV, Foyth and Rose

That's why we need a backup striker, for both times when Kane isn't playing and when we need an additional forward.

For me sales would be

Sissoko
Lamela/Moura
Rose
Sissoko
Fourth
CCV
Dele if a Good offer comes in

 

[billyiddo]

Raz you're comparing totals when i said Alli at his best and in that attacking role, as in prior to the last 2 and a bit seasons where he has been played deeper in a different role.

Besides even if the numbers are close that supports the idea that he is worth persevering with as having options as good as your starters is a good thing...

 

[Raziel]

Raz you're comparing totals when i said Alli at his best and in that attacking role, as in prior to the last 2 and a bit seasons where he has been played deeper in a different role.

Besides even if the numbers are close that supports the idea that he is worth persevering with as having options as good as your starters is a good thing...

Fair, but his best is really one season (16/17), numbers were off the chart, 18 in PL, 22 all up, pretty much a 1 in 2 scoring record.

Listen, I'm greedy, I'd keep Dele, Aurier, Lamela, Lucas and Bergwijn, the only players I'm really comfortable seeing go are Rose, CCV, Foyth and Sissoko

Dele is simply the one out because of the money at stake, and is he really going to be happy not starting?

 

[Bishop]

Raz you're comparing totals when i said Alli at his best, as in prior to the last 2 and a bit seasons where he has been played deeper in a different role.

Dele has one season that he outscored Son but Son has bettered his best other total 4 times, even the seasons before his arrival and even in Dele's best scoring season Son was not far behind. This suggests that Son is a more consistent goal scorer and is less effected by changes in team shape or personnel.

 

[billyiddo]

Fair, but his best is really one season (16/17), numbers were off the chart, 18 in PL, 22 all up, pretty much a 1 in 2 scoring record.

Listen, I'm greedy, I'd keep Dele, Aurier, Lamela, Lucas and Bergwijn, the only players I'm really comfortable seeing go are Rose, CCV, Foyth and Sissoko

Dele is simply the one out because of the money at stake, and is he really going to be happy not starting?

I think so, and it would give us a strength in depth in attack that would put us at the top challenging - much easier to keep rotational players happy then.

The description of Vinicius as a like for like Kane vs Southampton type that you posted in the other thread means id look to end up with...

Bale Son
Kane

Lamela Alli
Vinicius
​

And then have Moura Bergwijn available to switch it up if we want to play wider or whatnot.

 

[billyiddo]

Dele has one season that he outscored Son but Son has bettered his best other total 4 times, even the seasons before his arrival and even in Dele's best scoring season Son was not far behind. This suggests that Son is a more consistent goal scorer and is less effected by changes in team shape or personnel.

Over their first 3 seasons Alli scored 37 and Assisted 26, Prem only whereas Son scored 30 and assisted only 13 - appreciate minutes played vary between them both with Alli having more.

When you factor in the age/experience of the two players it's difficult to argue against Allis numbers being incredibly impressive and a player the club should persevere with.

 

[Bishop]

Over their first 3 seasons Alli scored 37 and Assisted 26, Prem only whereas Son scored 30 and assisted only 13 - appreciate minutes played vary between them both with Alli having more.

When you factor in the age/experience of the two players it's difficult to argue against Allis numbers being incredibly impressive and a player the club should persevere with.

The minutes given to both vary massively. Son looks even more impressive when minutes per goal is taken into account.

I don't think Dele is a player to be thrown away, but he is a player with a specific playstyle suited seemingly to a fairly specific set of circumstances. If we have indeed moved away from a system that suits him we may never see the kind of figures we saw in his earlier period with us.

So it's really looking at the bigger picture and deciding what is for the best in the long run. Can we get a productive Dele in the 433 we seem to have moved to? If not then selling him would be for the best all around.

Jose will have to judge this and work out whether he sees a way to make it work well for Dele.

 

[milo]

Over their first 3 seasons Alli scored 37 and Assisted 26, Prem only whereas Son scored 30 and assisted only 13 - appreciate minutes played vary between them both with Alli having more.

When you factor in the age/experience of the two players it's difficult to argue against Allis numbers being incredibly impressive and a player the club should persevere with.

And some of those seasons he's been played in CM or a diamond.

 

[billyiddo]

The minutes given to both vary massively. Son looks even more impressive when minutes per goal is taken into account.

I don't think Dele is a player to be thrown away, but he is a player with a specific playstyle suited seemingly to a fairly specific set of circumstances. If we have indeed moved away from a system that suits him we may never see the kind of figures we saw in his earlier period with us.

So it's really looking at the bigger picture and deciding what is for the best in the long run. Can we get a productive Dele in the 433 we seem to have moved to? If not then selling him would be for the best all around.

Jose will have to judge this and work out whether he sees a way to make it work well for Dele.

Happy to concede the point regarding Alli v Sons numbers.

The thrust of my point however relates to what you touch on in the second half of your post - i believe if the last few games are an indicator then Kane is going to be dropping off to supply Bale and Son quite often and i believe that Alli would benefit from that shift in attacking play and add stiff competition to whoever plays off of Kane.

 

[braineclipse]

And some of those seasons he's been played in CM or a diamond.

And Son has actually played quite a few games as an out and out striker. Makes it difficult to compare the numbers directly, both have very good numbers though.

 

[AdamB]

Over their first 3 seasons Alli scored 37 and Assisted 26, Prem only whereas Son scored 30 and assisted only 13 - appreciate minutes played vary between them both with Alli having more.

When you factor in the age/experience of the two players it's difficult to argue against Allis numbers being incredibly impressive and a player the club should persevere with.

Problem with using history to assess Dele is that given we now dont have Eriksen or a similar replacement, there is no creator in the front 4 if Dele plays. His numbers were previously very impressive but we won't be playing a similar system with similar players again so it makes his figures less useful for considering future contribution. I struggle to see a formation/system which we can play and which would suit Dele

 

[billyiddo]

Problem with using history to assess Dele is that given we now dont have Eriksen or a similar replacement, there is no creator in the front 4 if Dele plays. His numbers were previously very impressive but we won't be playing a similar system with similar players again so it makes his figures less useful for considering future contribution. I struggle to see a formation/system which we can play and which would suit Dele

I thought I'd made it clear that i see Kane playing provider as per the last run of games?

 

[AdamB]

I thought I'd made it clear that i see Kane playing provider as per the last run of games?

You did, but I struggle to see how Kane replicates someone who moves the ball quickly in/around the box like an Eriksen type player. Kane is creative, but is quite different to CE and vice-versa.

Maybe its be but it feels like round pegs/square holes with Dele's fit with how we look like we'll be setting up...and we wouldnt be getting the most out of Dele, and Dele wouldnt be getting the most out of Spurs. I've nothing against the guy, but feels like he'll further stagnate at Spurs and needs to find somewhere which will play to his strengths

 

[billyiddo]

You did, but I struggle to see how Kane replicates someone who moves the ball quickly in/around the box like an Eriksen type player. Kane is creative, but is quite different to CE and vice-versa.

Maybe its be but it feels like round pegs/square holes with Dele's fit with how we look like we'll be setting up...and we wouldnt be getting the most out of Dele, and Dele wouldnt be getting the most out of Spurs. I've nothing against the guy, but feels like he'll further stagnate at Spurs and needs to find somewhere which will play to his strengths

I think the way I've laid it out in previous posts is very much square pegs in square holes tbh fair enough if you disagree though

 

[NoLimits01]

It's Bergwijn ffs, and to sell him would be a joke.

Lucas or Alli for me. Hopefully we don't sell Alli though as a loan could reinvigorate him.

I'd also consider offers for Aurier, Sissoko, Winks, CCV and maybe a few others.

I'd consider an offer for Lucas, Winks and CCV, drive Aurier to the airport and pay Sissoko's airfare

 

[Sandman]

Its a Squad game. And we need options on the bench. But for the players that seem to have no chance here would be good to go:

Foyth
CCV
Sissoko
Gazzanigga ( no point having three GK's )
Rose

Thats it. The rest we keep.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

And Son has actually played quite a few games as an out and out striker. Makes it difficult to compare the numbers directly, both have very good numbers though.

Can't believe peeps even went down that rabbit hole.

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

Winks brings absolutely nothing of value to the team. He should go, plus I think some clubs would be mad enough to pay top dollar for him. i would have also added Lamela but he has come up with the goods right in the nick of time in the EL and League Cup
.