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Victimpool FC - Klopp leaving, grown men crying

Not defending them, I hope they don’t win the league even if we can’t, if it’s not us then Emirates Marketing Project would have to be my preference. I just thought it was rich for spurs fans to call another team bottlers when you consider our record in cup competitions and when we have a chance to go top we’ve fallen short. The only time Liverpool bottled it IMO is when they were 3-0 up to Palace at Cristanbul and drew 3-3. They should have won the league that season but they let it slip, excuse the pun.

I dont think we arent qualified to call another team bottlers. Its a view than could be very reasonably argued from any perspective, why should it matter if its from a Spurs fan?

And thats basically my point, knowingly or not, youre jumping in to defend them!
 
I dont think we arent qualified to call another team bottlers. Its a view than could be very reasonably argued from any perspective, why should it matter if its from a Spurs fan?

And thats basically my point, knowingly or not, youre jumping in to defend them!

I don't care who the team is really but until we win a trophy and/or get to the top of the league then it's a bit rich for us to call other teams bottlers. It would be like us having a go at other teams' fans for being racist after that idiot threw a banana at Aubameyang. If we do then we have to accept it when other teams' fans call us bottlers. Whenever we have had the chance to go top in the last couple of seasons we have typically drawn or lost and put in some of our worst performances of the season. When was the last time we were top of the league in any season after September?
 
I simply disagree.

You might see some hypocrisy in it, but I think its perfectly valid to make observations about another team. Regardless of whether or not those same observations might apply to ours.
 
That's fine but most posters on GG don't like it when another poster refers to Spurs as "bottlers". They usually get told to "fudge off and support Arsenal" or words to that effect.
 
so?

are fans not allowed to be partisan on their own clubs supporters message boards any more? strange thing to take exception to

we get it laid on thick any time we lose a big game that we are bottlers, 6 final defeats on the trot for Liverpool/klopp whatever it is seems to go largely ignored by comparison - not to mention their collapse under Rodgers when they were in the driving seat to win the league compared to us never being in control the year we bottled it to Leicester...
 
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Because posters get shouted down for anything that is the slightest bit negative or realistic, like posters claiming they had ITK on the stadium being delayed and were shouted down and were told it was nonsense. That's fine for fans to be partisan but can we not also be honest and call it how we see it when assessing our own team without being called out for being "negative" and suggesting we "do a Leeds" if we want to buy a player?

I've already said they bottled it when they drew 3-3 with Palace, the title was theirs to lose that season and they threw it away. Whereas I don't think we bottled the league when Leicester won it because we were never top besides 10 minutes when we were beating Arsenal but our record in semi finals is hardly something to be proud of but whenever anyone mentions it they get called negative.
 
Because posters get shouted down for anything that is the slightest bit negative or realistic, like posters claiming they had ITK on the stadium being delayed and were shouted down and were told it was nonsense. That's fine for fans to be partisan but can we not also be honest and call it how we see it when assessing our own team without being called out for being "negative" and suggesting we "do a Leeds" if we want to buy a player?

we're veering away from the topic at hand here and it seems to be more of an issue with how message boards/forum discussions work - you may think you're being realistic in your posting but others will disagree, nature of the beast, best to remember you're having a discussion with scores of people at one time rather than GG (or wherever) as a single entity. ITK gets shouted down on here all the time whether it's positive or negative - again a strange thing to take exception to afaic

I've already said they bottled it when they drew 3-3 with Palace, the title was theirs to lose that season and they threw it away. Whereas I don't think we bottled the league when Leicester won it because we were never top besides 10 minutes when we were beating Arsenal but our record in semi finals is hardly something to be proud of but whenever anyone mentions it they get called negative.

so you agree it's ok for Spurs fans to pass judgement on Liverpool bottling things then? glad that's cleared up :)
 
A can't see why any fan should be barred from passing judgement on Liverpool bottling things. Why shouldn't they be free to express an opinion on that or, for that matter, any other topic. What other teams do has nothing to do with whether Liverpool are bottlers or not.
 
why can't we, as bottlers, pass comment on other teams being bottlers also? doesn't make sense - it would be rich to laugh at them for being so as we are ourselves but no reason why we can't point out others ability to do so too

We are very aware of the traits of bottlers and are experts in spotting the tell-tale signs.
There is no better-qualified group of fans than us.
 
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I don't care who the team is really but until we win a trophy and/or get to the top of the league then it's a bit rich for us to call other teams bottlers. It would be like us having a go at other teams' fans for being racist after that idiot threw a banana at Aubameyang. If we do then we have to accept it when other teams' fans call us bottlers. Whenever we have had the chance to go top in the last couple of seasons we have typically drawn or lost and put in some of our worst performances of the season. When was the last time we were top of the league in any season after September?

No idea what evidence there was that it was racially motivated other than people's prejudiced expectations, but it occurred to me the banana peel might just have been all he happened to have on him to throw in his worked-up state, and perhaps he'll be revising his choice of in-game fruit snack in future (if he ever gets back in a ground, that is). It doesn't seem very logical, after all, to try and insult someone via the alleged consumption of a foodstuff that you've obviously just eaten yourself, I'm bound to say. It also struck me how often people started using "banana" and "banana skin" interchangeably in the subsequent comment/reportage (you've just done it yourself, in fact). I don't recall the peel ever being the racists' missile of choice before, myself, although I might be wrong. Idiot, though, whichever way you look at it.
 
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Unsurprisingly, after weeks of laughing at Squires ripping on Mourinho, he's suddenly not funny anymore.

He seems to have lost his touch recently. I was getting ready for a giggle when I saw we were gonna be getting the tinkle taken out of us, but that just wasn't funny.

Those who think Liverpool fans are insufferable are wilfully forgetting how insufferable Man Utd fans have been the last 20 years or so. Jeez people, we don't care what you think of us.

Me ma tucked me in in a warm and comfy Liverpool blanket as a wee tot. I spent my pre-teen and teenage years in a never-ending state of ecstasy watching Liverpool win stuff in the late 70s and 80s. Fans of other teams didn't like us then, but we didn't care what they thought of us.

We then had to endure the insufferable Mancs singing "Glory Glory Manchester United" and rubbing it in our noses for the next 20 long years. Fans of other teams didn't like us still, but we didn't care what they thought of us.

Now, I am showing my two young daughters what it feels like to watch your team winning stuff again. Fans of other teams don't like us, but we still don't care what they think of us.

In the next two decades or so, I will be boring my grandchildren with stories of how Liverpool were winning stuff. Fans of other teams will still not like us, but we won't care what they think of us.

I think you could see the cartoon in two ways:

1) A poke at what is perceived as overconfident Liverpool supporters and how full of ourselves we will be if the club were to finally win.

AND/OR

2) A poke at fans of other clubs who are already complaining about how overconfident and full of ourselves Liverpool supporters will be should the club win. And how convinced those other fans are that we will blow it in the end.

Nah, there's only one way.
 
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/every-supporter-should-celebrate-if-liverpool-triumph-f8m3677js

Football has always been a kick in the tribals. Rival fans lash out at the lauding of Liverpool, just as many fume at headlines celebrating Manchester United’s revival under Ole Gunnar Solskjaer and seethe at the deification of Mauricio “But what’s he won?” Pochettino.

It’s the supporter’s staple of insularity often stained with jealousy, almost amplifying love for their own team by loathing others. It’s being a fan. Opposing supporters fulminate at the lengthy eulogies bestowed on Emirates Marketing Project under the visionary Pep Guardiola, whose team was acclaimed as the greatest in Premier League history a month ago.

The focus has changed, the pendulum swinging more in Liverpool’s favour now. The media, far from fickle, simply reflects form and there is plenty of uplifting work, on and off the field, to reflect and respect now with Liverpool.

The possibility of Liverpool winning the title — and it needs stating again and again that a defiant, dynamic City still stand in their way — causes apoplexy among many. Talk to fans of other clubs and they frequently claim a media love-in with Liverpool. One Chelsea diehard totted up the number of former Liverpool players working as pundits and, exhausted, stopped at 44. Manchester United alumni fill studios, too.

Most of the former United and Liverpool pundits are pretty objective. Press boxes are neutral, and the three or four Liverpool fans by birth among the main 50-odd football writers are, to this observer’s eye, consistently balanced. Yes, they salute Jürgen Klopp and his team, just as they have City under Guardiola, United under Sir Alex Ferguson, Chelsea under José Mourinho and Arsenal, for the most part, under Arsène Wenger. And yet there is this perception of Liverpool being the media darlings. During an instructive debate on social media over the past 36 hours, one supporter retorted, and doubtless spoke for many: “Facts don’t matter when it comes to hating Liverpool.”

Why? What is it about Liverpool that stirs such antipathy? The tasteless “always the victim” chants from United visitors can be consigned to the shameful shadows where they belong when set against the bravery of so many Liverpool campaigners fighting for justice over Hillsborough. (During the run-in, April brings the 30th anniversary of the disaster, which will keep even the thought of a mere trophy, a mere sport in proper perspective).

Opposing fans accuse Kopites of a sense of entitlement, of living in the past, singing “we won it five times” about their European Cup feats, but great clubs do cherish their history. And if Chelsea fans’ banner of “making history, not reliving it” is a dig at Liverpool, they cannot also slam the Kop for revelling in the present. Isn’t this what every fan wants? A proud past and a future full of hope? Liverpool are in a good place then.

Rival fans spluttering about what Kopites will be like if they were to end 29 years without the title should imagine their own reaction if they had waited that long. Desperate for the trophy. Those holding on even longer, the likes of Everton and Spurs, should take heart that persistence may be rewarded. Even if Liverpool fail to outrun Guardiola’s champion thoroughbreds, there is so much to admire.

Liverpool possess many principles that should be valued even more in a changing, more corporate world. The game should be about glory, about trophies, which Klopp’s men chase and the Kop craves. Football should not be about the battle for fourth, the amassing of dividends for shareholders or who has got the biggest, busiest megastore. Liverpool seem to have the balance right between one foot in the community and one foot in the commercial world.

So those who decry the Kop, who believe that Liverpool fans are a “cult” with their banners and anthems should not forget that it was Liverpool supporters, along with Arsenal’s and a few others, who led the fight against Premier League clubs’ avarice on ticket prices.

In February 2016, the Kop called their owners out over the scandalous £77 charge for a seat for 90 minutes in the new stand, staging a walk-out and chorusing “you greedy bastards, enough is enough”. Fenway Sports Group (FSG), in fairness, backed down (although some issues remain). Liverpool’s chief executive, Peter Moore, recently took to social media to address fans’ frustrations about the members’ ticket sales process. There seems an accountability at Anfield not always found among elite English clubs.

Just talk to Arsenal fans. They would love to talk properly to their increasingly distant club. At Liverpool, FSG appointed Tony Barrett, formerly a football writer of The Times, as head of club and supporter liaison, a conduit between the terraces and corridors of power. When Liverpool visited Roma last May, it was Barrett, standing outside the Stadio Olimpico with many fans and too few open gates, contacting Uefa, urging them to react quickly. Uefa rarely respond with the requisite speed but Barrett got them to, preventing a bottleneck. No wonder his unstinting commitment to fans’ welfare earned him an award from the Football Supporters’ Federation. Other clubs are considering following Liverpool’s example, liaising better with supporters. Good.

Liverpool do many things right, keeping club close to community.

They have a manager in Klopp who cares, who used his Christmas message to hail the NHS and the work being carried out at Alder Hey hospital “with absolute world-class staff supporting those brave children and parents fighting some of life’s most important battles. I cannot tell you how high my respect and admiration is for everyone there”.

Most clubs would love Klopp representing them so passionately, engaging with fans, clearly loved by his players. And yet, beyond the bonhomie is a driven, almost ruthless figure, drawing fully on sports science to prepare his team. Liverpool even employ a specialist throw-in coach.

Klopp is about marginal gains as well as inspiring man-management. He is a man who understands his environment, whether dressing room, stand or surrounding streets, and connects with them emotionally. How many other managers do? Mourinho didn’t.

Klopp’s players are committed to their community work, like their peers elsewhere of course. Everton’s are exceptional. Arsenal In The Community has been changing — and saving — lives since 1985. Liverpool players certainly understand their responsibilities. The captain, Jordan Henderson, organised a whip-round at Melwood for Fans Supporting Foodbanks and met up with Liverpool fan Ian Byrne and Evertonian Dave Kelly, two of the driving forces behind this vital initiative. A foodbank van is stationed on club land on Anfield Road on match-day. Moore is a regular contributor and there is a drop-off point for donations in the Anfield shop.

Liverpool have kept their soul, not always easy for a club in the money-obsessed Premier League. Trent Alexander-Arnold hosted a lunch for the lonely and disadvantaged on Christmas Day, Henderson funded an event for underprivileged or disabled children two days before Christmas and handed out presents, while Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain visited a charity in Toxteth. Many players do this, as they should, using football as a force for good, but it is worth noting in the feverish debate about Liverpool that their squad is a collection of good characters as well as good players.

On the pitch, their talent is clear. It is important for the overall lustre of the Premier League that such a thrilling team, who have never won the title in the present format, are in contention. That might add a fistful of dinars to the next overseas broadcast deal. Everybody benefits.

Anybody who loves exciting, fearless football should appreciate the attacking from full back of Alexander-Arnold and Andy Robertson towards the predatory poetry in motion of Mo Salah, Sadio Mané and Roberto Firmino, who can whip up a storm in an instant.

As one Liverpool fan posting on the Red And White Kop forum observed: “We aren’t walking through the storm now — we are the storm.” The storm has built gradually and shrewdly under Klopp, a lesson to clubs, whatever the vicious views of rival fans.

Stan Kroenke, Arsenal’s absentee owner, could certainly look at what his compatriot John W Henry oversees at Liverpool: an outstanding, balanced recruitment structure, investing properly in ability, seeking out bargains such as Robertson at £8 million and also spending £75 million on a centre back of Virgil van Dijk’s commanding nature, rather than Sokratis and Shkodran Mustafi, defensive makeweights who cost Arsenal £53 million between them. So ignore the tribal screams; Liverpool should be seen as a model club in many ways.
 
Because posters get shouted down for anything that is the slightest bit negative or realistic, like posters claiming they had ITK on the stadium being delayed and were shouted down and were told it was nonsense. That's fine for fans to be partisan but can we not also be honest and call it how we see it when assessing our own team without being called out for being "negative" and suggesting we "do a Leeds" if we want to buy a player?

I've already said they bottled it when they drew 3-3 with Palace, the title was theirs to lose that season and they threw it away. Whereas I don't think we bottled the league when Leicester won it because we were never top besides 10 minutes when we were beating Arsenal but our record in semi finals is hardly something to be proud of but whenever anyone mentions it they get called negative.
Sorry to jump in, but just like to pull you up on the stadium itk, not one single person came up with any itk that the safety systems were going to cause a delay. It was all because it didn't "look" like it would be ready from the pictures and those pictures were used as the evidence it wouldn't be ready. Well as it turned out the actual reason for the delay couldn't be seen in any pictures. So those people were right there was a delay but for completely the wrong reasons, not sure that makes them itk?

Anyway sorry I don't want to derail the Liverpool thread.
 
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/every-supporter-should-celebrate-if-liverpool-triumph-f8m3677js

Football has always been a kick in the tribals. Rival fans lash out at the lauding of Liverpool, just as many fume at headlines celebrating Manchester United’s revival under Ole Gunnar Solskjaer and seethe at the deification of Mauricio “But what’s he won?” Pochettino.

It’s the supporter’s staple of insularity often stained with jealousy, almost amplifying love for their own team by loathing others. It’s being a fan. Opposing supporters fulminate at the lengthy eulogies bestowed on Emirates Marketing Project under the visionary Pep Guardiola, whose team was acclaimed as the greatest in Premier League history a month ago.

The focus has changed, the pendulum swinging more in Liverpool’s favour now. The media, far from fickle, simply reflects form and there is plenty of uplifting work, on and off the field, to reflect and respect now with Liverpool.

The possibility of Liverpool winning the title — and it needs stating again and again that a defiant, dynamic City still stand in their way — causes apoplexy among many. Talk to fans of other clubs and they frequently claim a media love-in with Liverpool. One Chelsea diehard totted up the number of former Liverpool players working as pundits and, exhausted, stopped at 44. Manchester United alumni fill studios, too.

Most of the former United and Liverpool pundits are pretty objective. Press boxes are neutral, and the three or four Liverpool fans by birth among the main 50-odd football writers are, to this observer’s eye, consistently balanced. Yes, they salute Jürgen Klopp and his team, just as they have City under Guardiola, United under Sir Alex Ferguson, Chelsea under José Mourinho and Arsenal, for the most part, under Arsène Wenger. And yet there is this perception of Liverpool being the media darlings. During an instructive debate on social media over the past 36 hours, one supporter retorted, and doubtless spoke for many: “Facts don’t matter when it comes to hating Liverpool.”

Why? What is it about Liverpool that stirs such antipathy? The tasteless “always the victim” chants from United visitors can be consigned to the shameful shadows where they belong when set against the bravery of so many Liverpool campaigners fighting for justice over Hillsborough. (During the run-in, April brings the 30th anniversary of the disaster, which will keep even the thought of a mere trophy, a mere sport in proper perspective).

Opposing fans accuse Kopites of a sense of entitlement, of living in the past, singing “we won it five times” about their European Cup feats, but great clubs do cherish their history. And if Chelsea fans’ banner of “making history, not reliving it” is a dig at Liverpool, they cannot also slam the Kop for revelling in the present. Isn’t this what every fan wants? A proud past and a future full of hope? Liverpool are in a good place then.

Rival fans spluttering about what Kopites will be like if they were to end 29 years without the title should imagine their own reaction if they had waited that long. Desperate for the trophy. Those holding on even longer, the likes of Everton and Spurs, should take heart that persistence may be rewarded. Even if Liverpool fail to outrun Guardiola’s champion thoroughbreds, there is so much to admire.

Liverpool possess many principles that should be valued even more in a changing, more corporate world. The game should be about glory, about trophies, which Klopp’s men chase and the Kop craves. Football should not be about the battle for fourth, the amassing of dividends for shareholders or who has got the biggest, busiest megastore. Liverpool seem to have the balance right between one foot in the community and one foot in the commercial world.

So those who decry the Kop, who believe that Liverpool fans are a “cult” with their banners and anthems should not forget that it was Liverpool supporters, along with Arsenal’s and a few others, who led the fight against Premier League clubs’ avarice on ticket prices.

In February 2016, the Kop called their owners out over the scandalous £77 charge for a seat for 90 minutes in the new stand, staging a walk-out and chorusing “you greedy bastards, enough is enough”. Fenway Sports Group (FSG), in fairness, backed down (although some issues remain). Liverpool’s chief executive, Peter Moore, recently took to social media to address fans’ frustrations about the members’ ticket sales process. There seems an accountability at Anfield not always found among elite English clubs.

Just talk to Arsenal fans. They would love to talk properly to their increasingly distant club. At Liverpool, FSG appointed Tony Barrett, formerly a football writer of The Times, as head of club and supporter liaison, a conduit between the terraces and corridors of power. When Liverpool visited Roma last May, it was Barrett, standing outside the Stadio Olimpico with many fans and too few open gates, contacting Uefa, urging them to react quickly. Uefa rarely respond with the requisite speed but Barrett got them to, preventing a bottleneck. No wonder his unstinting commitment to fans’ welfare earned him an award from the Football Supporters’ Federation. Other clubs are considering following Liverpool’s example, liaising better with supporters. Good.

Liverpool do many things right, keeping club close to community.

They have a manager in Klopp who cares, who used his Christmas message to hail the NHS and the work being carried out at Alder Hey hospital “with absolute world-class staff supporting those brave children and parents fighting some of life’s most important battles. I cannot tell you how high my respect and admiration is for everyone there”.

Most clubs would love Klopp representing them so passionately, engaging with fans, clearly loved by his players. And yet, beyond the bonhomie is a driven, almost ruthless figure, drawing fully on sports science to prepare his team. Liverpool even employ a specialist throw-in coach.

Klopp is about marginal gains as well as inspiring man-management. He is a man who understands his environment, whether dressing room, stand or surrounding streets, and connects with them emotionally. How many other managers do? Mourinho didn’t.

Klopp’s players are committed to their community work, like their peers elsewhere of course. Everton’s are exceptional. Arsenal In The Community has been changing — and saving — lives since 1985. Liverpool players certainly understand their responsibilities. The captain, Jordan Henderson, organised a whip-round at Melwood for Fans Supporting Foodbanks and met up with Liverpool fan Ian Byrne and Evertonian Dave Kelly, two of the driving forces behind this vital initiative. A foodbank van is stationed on club land on Anfield Road on match-day. Moore is a regular contributor and there is a drop-off point for donations in the Anfield shop.

Liverpool have kept their soul, not always easy for a club in the money-obsessed Premier League. Trent Alexander-Arnold hosted a lunch for the lonely and disadvantaged on Christmas Day, Henderson funded an event for underprivileged or disabled children two days before Christmas and handed out presents, while Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain visited a charity in Toxteth. Many players do this, as they should, using football as a force for good, but it is worth noting in the feverish debate about Liverpool that their squad is a collection of good characters as well as good players.

On the pitch, their talent is clear. It is important for the overall lustre of the Premier League that such a thrilling team, who have never won the title in the present format, are in contention. That might add a fistful of dinars to the next overseas broadcast deal. Everybody benefits.

Anybody who loves exciting, fearless football should appreciate the attacking from full back of Alexander-Arnold and Andy Robertson towards the predatory poetry in motion of Mo Salah, Sadio Mané and Roberto Firmino, who can whip up a storm in an instant.

As one Liverpool fan posting on the Red And White Kop forum observed: “We aren’t walking through the storm now — we are the storm.” The storm has built gradually and shrewdly under Klopp, a lesson to clubs, whatever the vicious views of rival fans.

Stan Kroenke, Arsenal’s absentee owner, could certainly look at what his compatriot John W Henry oversees at Liverpool: an outstanding, balanced recruitment structure, investing properly in ability, seeking out bargains such as Robertson at £8 million and also spending £75 million on a centre back of Virgil van Dijk’s commanding nature, rather than Sokratis and Shkodran Mustafi, defensive makeweights who cost Arsenal £53 million between them. So ignore the tribal screams; Liverpool should be seen as a model club in many ways.
I wonder how he sounds without a throat full of Victimpool rooster
 
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