*** Tottenham Hotspur - Arsenal OMT ***

[Nigeyman]

Nice stat.

What do points make? Prizes!!

yes, indeed.

sorry just a little pick me up for those a little depressed.....including me.

I also think Brain of Levy hits the tickle my balls with a feather.

I don't think Dawson will start against Norwich nor Dembele.....I think we will have eriksen in the 10 role and be better for it. Holtby can be rotated with him...

lolz just need time to be the healer.....the Bale noise to stop The Norwich game feels ages away......hopefully we can get back on track.

 

[onlyme]

Our problem with breaking down stubborn and well organized teams remains a big one.

Arsenal are in **** hot form. They are a fuking great team.

Bull**** aside every person on this site would have 3, 4 maybe 5 of their players in front of ours.

But we bossed them today without creating chances. Our side is new. Theirs is more settled.

We lost as did United.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Spot on the money. We were slow ponderous and completely lacking in creativity.

Even allowing for the fact this was the NLD, the shameful thing was that they wanted it more than us. Our lack of creativity (no goals from open play in three games) and quite what our midfield thre are up to remains somewhat of a mystery. Who plays where? If Capoue is the DM then either Paline one Dembele MUST take it in turns to support Solado in the box. So often the three today were sitting far to deep and left our CM completely isolated.

From the in game comments, it seemed clear to most that Dembele was having a mare and it was crying out for Holtby (or even Sig) but certainly not Defoe. Couldn't understand that one by AVB

This was what ****ed me off more than anything from the commentary I heard on the radio. What the hell went on their? Tactical formations are one thing, but them being first to almost all loose balls is just plain wrong; WHY??

Also can ANYBODY explain the Defoe substitution????

 

[Pirate55]

DubaiSpur, I'm a bit shocked at your assessment to be honest, but I completely agree with Sandman.

I don't think this was Wenger's tactics at all. We just went to Arsenal's ground and controlled the game. We set the tempo. Did we slice them open at will? No, of course not. But that is never going to happen at the Emirates anyway. I'm not even saying it was a great performance, but to go there and set the tempo like we did is damn impressive. I came away from this game actually feeling pretty happy. Creating chance after chance wasn't there but I think the pieces of the puzzle were to have a really good season.

Under AVB we aren't an 'attacking' team as I feel some commentators lazily point out. We don't play to attack like Harry. We play to control. So that means we don't create chance after chance but leave ourselves exposed. The idea is to create some very good chances and rarely give anything away at the back at all, while probing for openings in possession. The fact that we were able to go to the Emirates and implement this shows how far we have come. I liken this to the Saudi Sportswashing Machine away game last year. Yes they won, but we clearly looked like the better side and it was obvious it would be that way at the end of the season.

The chances we did give away come from a lack of concentration from an individual who probably isn't suited to how we want to go. And unfortunately despite fighting his way back into the plans, Dawson I think is the weak link for me in this team. And today the other problem was that some of the new signings clearly hadn't the time to settle in. Lamela had good touches but it was clear he didn't know exactly which positions to be taking up. But that will come in a couple of weeks, he only had one session.

But other than that - Lloris, class. Walker and Rose, actually pretty good. Dawson and Vertonghen lost concentration for the goal. Midfield was pretty imposing and controlled possession, while up town Chadli and Soldado showed nice touches and Townsend looks like a genuine threat.

The performance today for us looked like the better team unfortunately losing to the plucky mid-table team looking to sit back and hit on the break. So many times we may have beaten Arsenal that way but today it was other way around. We looked like the big dogs and once our signings are integrated, we are going to be very, very hard to stop.

Don't feed the troll.

------------------------------

Not quite good enough today. Movement and tempo going forward not good enough. A bit too tentative defensively I thought, not what I expected from our central midfield.

Still early and I'm still very positive about the season overall even though I'm disappointed about today.

Can't wait to see more of our new signings, real shame about Capoue though who will probably be missing for months now.

Agree with every word, except the bolded one!

 

[Nigeyman]

Spot on the money. We were slow ponderous and completely lacking in creativity.

Even allowing for the fact this was the NLD, the shameful thing was that they wanted it more than us. Our lack of creativity (no goals from open play in three games) and quite what our midfield thre are up to remains somewhat of a mystery. Who plays where? If Capoue is the DM then either Paline one Dembele MUST take it in turns to support Solado in the box. So often the three today were sitting far to deep and left our CM completely isolated.

From the in game comments, it seemed clear to most that Dembele was having a mare and it was crying out for Holtby (or even Sig) but certainly not Defoe. Couldn't understand that one by AVB

Yes I think AVB got his subs wrong in-game..... Townsend was looking more threatening than Chadli and we were crying out for Holtby to link the midfield/attack. The defoe substitution was pointless imo.

He is a young manager and made some mistakes today. My faith in him will not waiver though.......He will grow as will players and how we play.

As it stands I believe we have the squad to do something special this year.....But its the little things that hurt us today........Dawson who I am afraid is not suited to our style of defending and the link between mid/attack which was missing....Dembele was really ineffective and did not provide that link......I don't think we should see Paulie & Dembele both play from now on as they are to similar.

As proved today we are difficult to play against and will no longer be the soft touch......yet we failed in attacking again....its down to the small things.

The perfect balance for me is Ball winner(Capoue) Box2box(Paulie) & creator no 10 (Holtby) playing Dembele with Paulinho is a no no from now on......both are box 2 box cm's and we wont create as much with them both in the team.

 

[Robspur12]

This was what ****ed me off more than anything from the commentary I heard on the radio. What the hell went on their? Tactical formations are one thing, but them being first to almost all loose balls is just plain wrong; WHY??

Also can ANYBODY explain the Defoe substitution????

Unfortunately, as I like AVB, it was him seeing the wrong thing perhaps he was distracted by Bale going to Madrid. He could see soldado was isolated in the box but this was imo because there was no link player between the midfield and strikers. Instead of putting on Holtby he put on defoe to leave 2 people isolated in their box.

 

[onlyme]

Until we play to Soldado's strength's he almost serves no purpose. The guy looks exasperated at the service he is getting and who can blame him. I see him making the runs and doing the right things but it's rather pointless at the moment as no one has the vision or ability to execute the right pass.

Another great point. This guy is class. He ain't big but he can really hold on to the ball against big lumps. He shoots on sight. The goals will come but today we needed a different option. I don't think JD was that different.

 

[Mulletperm]

The way we lined up yesterday was never going to create chances.

-----------------Lloris---------------
Walker-----Dawson----Vert------Rose
--------------Capoue---------------
-------Paulinho-Dembele-------Chadli
Townsend---------------------------
------------------------------------
------------------------------------
------------------------------------
------------------------------------
----------Soldado------------------

The 3 in the centre were all over the place with absolutely no idea of positioning or movement. In the second half this became worse when Chadli played further infield.

Dembele for me is a shocker. He can occasionally beat a couple of players but then runs out of ideas. Plus people are getting wise to his drop of the shoulder and moving left.

 

[onlyme]

This was what ****ed me off more than anything from the commentary I heard on the radio. What the hell went on their? Tactical formations are one thing, but them being first to almost all loose balls is just plain wrong; WHY??

Also can ANYBODY explain the Defoe substitution????

He wanted 4-4-2-ish? Who else was there?

 

[glorygloryeze]

He wanted 4-4-2-ish? Who else was there?

Holtby? Siggurdsson? My point being that two CFs who contribute little to build-up play needed supplying, so have both of them just seemingly standing there waiting for things to happen seemed suicidal.

Imagine if we had Ade today...perhaps Soldado wouldn't have been quite so isolated..

 

[Nigeyman]

Holtby? Siggurdsson? My point being that two CFs who contribute little to build-up play needed supplying, so have both of them just seemingly standing there waiting for things to happen seemed suicidal.

Imagine if we had Ade today...perhaps Soldado wouldn't have been quite so isolated..

Which makes me hope that whatever happens deadline day we are not without a physical cf as an option.......for all Ade's woes he is that.

 

[DHSF]

DubaiSpur, I'm a bit shocked at your assessment to be honest, but I completely agree with Sandman.

I don't think this was Wenger's tactics at all. We just went to Arsenal's ground and controlled the game. We set the tempo. Did we slice them open at will? No, of course not. But that is never going to happen at the Emirates anyway. I'm not even saying it was a great performance, but to go there and set the tempo like we did is damn impressive. I came away from this game actually feeling pretty happy. Creating chance after chance wasn't there but I think the pieces of the puzzle were to have a really good season.

Under AVB we aren't an 'attacking' team as I feel some commentators lazily point out. We don't play to attack like Harry. We play to control. So that means we don't create chance after chance but leave ourselves exposed. The idea is to create some very good chances and rarely give anything away at the back at all, while probing for openings in possession. The fact that we were able to go to the Emirates and implement this shows how far we have come. I liken this to the Saudi Sportswashing Machine away game last year. Yes they won, but we clearly looked like the better side and it was obvious it would be that way at the end of the season.

The chances we did give away come from a lack of concentration from an individual who probably isn't suited to how we want to go. And unfortunately despite fighting his way back into the plans, Dawson I think is the weak link for me in this team. And today the other problem was that some of the new signings clearly hadn't the time to settle in. Lamela had good touches but it was clear he didn't know exactly which positions to be taking up. But that will come in a couple of weeks, he only had one session.

But other than that - Lloris, class. Walker and Rose, actually pretty good. Dawson and Vertonghen lost concentration for the goal. Midfield was pretty imposing and controlled possession, while up town Chadli and Soldado showed nice touches and Townsend looks like a genuine threat.

The performance today for us looked like the better team unfortunately losing to the plucky mid-table team looking to sit back and hit on the break. So many times we may have beaten Arsenal that way but today it was other way around. We looked like the big dogs and once our signings are integrated, we are going to be very, very hard to stop.

Im intrigued by those who continue to mention that controlling the game is important or anything akin to that. I watched the game today and im not that upset we did play ok, nothing special but ok.

You mention control the game but what does it actually mean? You can pass sideways all game and consider that controlling the game but if you have no end product its actually giving a false impression. What concerns me though is the lack of chances and as mentioned that hopefully comes from Eriksen and Lamela but its the tactic that has to change. Passing and passing does nothing unless there is real intent and purpose - we seem devoid of that.

What youre describing is a tactic that is set out to NOT lose rather than a tactic that is set out TO win. Thats my view. Hence our performances were ****e after we went 1-0 against both Swansea and Palace because as soon as we went 1-0 both times Dembele who you could consider to be our most 'creative' driving force in midfield was subbed. That to me strikes as a sign of 'lets sit back'

Anyways like I say I dont think we will see this team and this squad in full throttle till the start of next season.

 

[onlyme]

We did better than OK today. But it certainly was not good enough. Arsenal will finish top 4, no question IMO.

We could have nicked a point, we could have gotten beat 3-0.

But the team we put out and the system we have will beat all but the top sides in the EPL. On our day we will beat the top sides as well.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Im intrigued by those who continue to mention that controlling the game is important or anything akin to that. I watched the game today and im not that upset we did play ok, nothing special but ok.

You mention control the game but what does it actually mean? You can pass sideways all game and consider that controlling the game but if you have no end product its actually giving a false impression. What concerns me though is the lack of chances and as mentioned that hopefully comes from Eriksen and Lamela but its the tactic that has to change. Passing and passing does nothing unless there is real intent and purpose - we seem devoid of that.

What youre describing is a tactic that is set out to NOT lose rather than a tactic that is set out TO win. Thats my view. Hence our performances were ****e after we went 1-0 against both Swansea and Palace because as soon as we went 1-0 both times Dembele who you could consider to be our most 'creative' driving force in midfield was subbed. That to me strikes as a sign of 'lets sit back'

Anyways like I say I dont think we will see this team and this squad in full throttle till the start of next season.

That is my main worry with AVB: that he has that mentality more common in Italy and other parts of Southern Europe which tend to play in a way to just be obsessed wit 'control' and 'hold onto what we've got' and not try not really kill a game off and not go for more goals if they are available. I agree to conserving energy, especially over a long season. But to dare is to do, and it's telling that we and Everton had the two worst GDs in last season's top 7...you wonder if GD could kill us again this year.

 

[Nigeyman]

Anyways like I say I dont think we will see this team and this squad in full throttle till the start of next season.

I don't think we can afford that luxury and we will be able to tell the quality of our coaching in how quickly we look like a decent side.

While I understand that being settled and having the same side for 2-3 years is a good thing this rarely happens in our league...teams are always (generally) in a state of flux.

Personally I don't think we can hide for too long behind the excuse of it will take time to gel....I would expect us to be at full steam by Christmas....hopefully earlier.....that may surprise some but I will explain my thinking......

You can take 11 players (new squad) who have never played together and make them look good (as if playing for years) IF you understand each player...their individual habits and limitations and think. Class footballers will play class if you get the mechanics correct.

My philosophy is to try and create the perfect balance in a team from defence to attack. In defence because Verts its a cultured cb and slightly slow on the turn you need a pacey CB next to him...ergo Dawson is not that CB....hence buying chireches.... as I stated the perfect midfield blend in my eyes is power, (sandro.Capoue) Stamina adept at def & att (paulie, Dembele) and the creator no 10 (Holtby & Eriksen) or full backs are young and will improve in defence and attack and we have talented wingers.

Today showed why we bought a pacey cb Chireches and a creator in Eriksen so I am excited that we have a perfect blend going forward.

Basically with all the waffle I can muster I am trying to say that Decent players provided AVB gets the first 11 correct should not take ages to gel......If the blend is right it wont take long to enjoy the juice.

As I said earlier I think that Paulie & Demebele should only be on the pitch together if we are protected a narrow lead and we are leaving three up front and playing counter attack....otherwise we will make hard work of scoring goals and Bobby Soldier will become exasperated.

against Norwich I would like to see....

Lloris

Walker---Kaboul---Verts---Rose

Sandro Paulie

Lamela Eriksen Chadli

Soldier.

That team would have a lovely balance and we have decent cover for each position......4-2-3-1 for me and 4-3-3 to counter teams when we have a lead...

 

[Spurs7891]

Really disappointed about the performance and result. Thought we would do well to get a 0-0 draw atleast. Without a creative midfielder, knew we will have problems creating many chances. Was hoping we could stop them scoring but instead Dawson's mistake in defence turned out to be the difference. Disappointingly, apart from Townsend and Defoe's long range efforts, we hardly looked like scoring. In fact, if not for some good saves from Lloris, we could have lost badly.

Hard to find any positives from this match. We not only lost out unbeaten record but lost our clean sheet as well. It is really disappointing the way we conceded the goal. Thought our defending have improved this season. Instead, it was a soft goal to give away. It was disappointing the way Dawson and Lloris got beaten for their goal. I think this match has shown that we are not yet ready to challenge for league title this season.

Was hoping the introduction of Lamela will inspire us. But don't think he had much impact when he came on. Just wish he came on and scored a goal. That would have been a sweet introduction to him, especially now that Bale has joined Real. But he will surely need more time to show his worth. Soldado didn't get much service from the midfield but he should have done better with the only chance he got in the first half from Walker's pass. Thought Soldado had enough time to aim his shot into goal instead of shooting straight at the Arsenal defender. Disappointingly, Townsend and Defoe's shots were the only one we had on target the entire match.

It is always disappointing to lose to Arsenal. But atleast we lost away at Arsenal where we rarely get anything from. With the 2 week break we have now, hope we will use it to improve our tactics to get back to winning ways against Norwich.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Im intrigued by those who continue to mention that controlling the game is important or anything akin to that. I watched the game today and im not that upset we did play ok, nothing special but ok.

You mention control the game but what does it actually mean? You can pass sideways all game and consider that controlling the game but if you have no end product its actually giving a false impression. What concerns me though is the lack of chances and as mentioned that hopefully comes from Eriksen and Lamela but its the tactic that has to change. Passing and passing does nothing unless there is real intent and purpose - we seem devoid of that.

What youre describing is a tactic that is set out to NOT lose rather than a tactic that is set out TO win. Thats my view. Hence our performances were ****e after we went 1-0 against both Swansea and Palace because as soon as we went 1-0 both times Dembele who you could consider to be our most 'creative' driving force in midfield was subbed. That to me strikes as a sign of 'lets sit back'

Anyways like I say I dont think we will see this team and this squad in full throttle till the start of next season.

I'd guess the simple principle of control as opposed to all out attack or sitting back is that it's a method of play that allows you to create chances and exploit the good, creative players in your team without giving your opponents as many opportunities to score. We are still liable to be hit on the break and it can be nerve racking for fans if the opposition almost breaks through but when you have a keeper like Lloris it actually helps a lot with that too.

But a control system takes time, it is work to implement. It doesn't come too quickly. It is a tactic to win, it's just the best way of combining creating scoring opportunities with keeping the opposition as far away from our goal as possible. The sideways passing isn't pointless and chances can be created - there is a purpose but if the side isn't settled it may not quite come off and it can appear like there isn't that purpose.

 

[stinkfoot]

Im intrigued by those who continue to mention that controlling the game is important or anything akin to that. I watched the game today and im not that upset we did play ok, nothing special but ok.

You mention control the game but what does it actually mean? You can pass sideways all game and consider that controlling the game but if you have no end product its actually giving a false impression. What concerns me though is the lack of chances and as mentioned that hopefully comes from Eriksen and Lamela but its the tactic that has to change. Passing and passing does nothing unless there is real intent and purpose - we seem devoid of that.

What youre describing is a tactic that is set out to NOT lose rather than a tactic that is set out TO win. Thats my view. Hence our performances were ****e after we went 1-0 against both Swansea and Palace because as soon as we went 1-0 both times Dembele who you could consider to be our most 'creative' driving force in midfield was subbed. That to me strikes as a sign of 'lets sit back'

Anyways like I say I dont think we will see this team and this squad in full throttle till the start of next season.

It's all a bit Liverpool/Brenton isn't it!

 

[a spur from swansea]

It wasn't dawson fault for the goal,it was vertonghen,if your an international you don't appeal for off side when a striker passes you by without knowing whats happening behind you,schoolboy error as they say.He should have played the percentage game...... if your not sure the bigger percentage would have been that someone is behind you....especially if you are a yard or two on the edge of the box.

Plus how many goals does giroud and infact arsenal score at the near post,didn't rosicky score an exact goal against us last year or so.Arsenal game is that they like to create overlaps,in the first twenty minutes we did it a few times ourselfs but then nothing.

 

[Hootnow]

It wasn't dawson fault for the goal,it was vertonghen,if your an international you don't appeal for off side when a striker passes you by without knowing whats happening behind you,schoolboy error as they say.He should have played the percentage game...... if your not sure the bigger percentage would have been that someone is behind you....especially if you are a yard or two on the edge of the box.

Plus how many goals does giroud and infact arsenal score at the near post,didn't rosicky score an exact goal against us last year or so.Arsenal game is that they like to create overlaps,in the first twenty minutes we did it a few times ourselfs but then nothing.

Don't agree at all tbh. Dawson was about 5 metres behind the rest of the defence. If he'd been at the same level, both Walcott and Giroud would have been offside. He was 5 metres behind the defence because he was watching Giroud rather than the play. Then he lost Giroud anyway.