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The trigger for our down-turn?

Mulletperm

Mulletperm

Mauricio Taricco
In my opinion it was selling Dembele when we did, with no idea for a replacement. We have simply not looked the same since November 2018. People go on about we miss Eriksen, but the rot started before he went.

November 2017 to November 2018 (Dembele's last game was end Nov 2018).

Played - 40
Won - 26
Draw - 7
Lost - 7
Win percentage - 65%

End November 2018 to November 2019

Played - 42
Won - 19
Draw - 6
Lost - 17
Win percentage - 45%
 
Selling him when we did made sense, his form had fallen off a cliff.

I think a bigger factor was Poch getting too close to some players and not being able to give them a kick up the arse when they slacked off, despite his words about being paid to train, standards dropped, performances followed.
 
All players go through patches of bad form. But to flog him off a month or so after he got injured without having a suitable replacement lined up was insanity.
 
We got rid of Dembele at the right time. He was gradually getting worse. Not replacing him was a massive gonad* dropped though.

The catalyst for me was not adequately reinvesting in the squad when we came so close to winning trophies in 2016/17. An FA cup semi and a 2nd place finish and we didn’t sign a single player until AFTER the season started! Walker was sold in June 17 and we had to start with feckin KWP at right back because we couldn’t sign a right back in 6 weeks! Let’s face it, we knew Walker was going from about March, possibly even earlier, Monaco away was arguably where Walker decided enough was enough after Poch thought Trippier was as his equal. He’s not fit to lace Walker’s boots. Understandable if Walker felt slighted. Why did it take us so long to sign a replacement for Walker?

The stadium move didn’t help on the pitch either. Another season or two at the old WHL with fresh signings, significant upgrades to lift the squad could have been the shot in the arm the team needed to get over the line. It’s unfortunate for us the stadium move happened when it did.
 
galeforce said:
Selling him when we did made sense, his form had fallen off a cliff.

I think a bigger factor was Poch getting too close to some players and not being able to give them a kick up the arse when they slacked off, despite his words about being paid to train, standards dropped, performances followed.
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Maybe of more importance was that poch was not allowed to move on the players he didn’t want and get the players he did want. Levy couldn’t or wouldn’t do either. Two windows without a new player when anyone who understands modern football knows you need to bring in new squad members.
 
Jurgen the German said:
We got rid of Dembele at the right time. He was gradually getting worse. Not replacing him was a massive gonad* dropped though.

The catalyst for me was not adequately reinvesting in the squad when we came so close to winning trophies in 2016/17. An FA cup semi and a 2nd place finish and we didn’t sign a single player until AFTER the season started! Walker was sold in June 17 and we had to start with feckin KWP at right back because we couldn’t sign a right back in 6 weeks! Let’s face it, we knew Walker was going from about March, possibly even earlier, Monaco away was arguably where Walker decided enough was enough after Poch thought Trippier was as his equal. He’s not fit to lace Walker’s boots. Understandable if Walker felt slighted. Why did it take us so long to sign a replacement for Walker?

The stadium move didn’t help on the pitch either. Another season or two at the old WHL with fresh signings, significant upgrades to lift the squad could have been the shot in the arm the team needed to get over the line. It’s unfortunate for us the stadium move happened when it did.
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And keeping eriksen through until
January when he wanted to leave. Levy has done amazingly good things and also amazingly destructive things.
 
90291Spur said:
Maybe of more importance was that poch was not allowed to move on the players he didn’t want and get the players he did want. Levy couldn’t or wouldn’t do either. Two windows without a new player when anyone who understands modern football knows you need to bring in new squad members.
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This has been done to death in the Poch thread.
 
Not backing Mitchell and then abandoning the DoF style setup up altogether - all our problems come back to player contracts and recruitment.

Having a 'transfer committee' that leaves our best manager in decades feeling disgruntled and not part of the decision making process.

Not taking heed of said best managers warnings that the squad was facing a long and painful rebuild because of issues relating to player recruitment and then having the audacity to blame him when what he was warning us about came to fruition.
 
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billyiddo said:
Not backing Mitchell and then abandoning the DoF style setup up altogether - all our problems come back to player contracts and recruitment.

Having a 'transfer committee' that leaves our best manager in decades feeling disgruntled and not part of the decision making process.

Not taking heed of said best managers warnings that the squad was facing a long and painful rebuild because of issues relating to player recruitment and then having the audacity to blame him for what he was warning us about.
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I could not have said it better!
 
Mulletperm said:
In my opinion it was selling Dembele when we did, with no idea for a replacement. We have simply not looked the same since November 2018. People go on about we miss Eriksen, but the rot started before he went.

November 2017 to November 2018 (Dembele's last game was end Nov 2018).

Played - 40
Won - 26
Draw - 7
Lost - 7
Win percentage - 65%

End November 2018 to November 2019

Played - 42
Won - 19
Draw - 6
Lost - 17
Win percentage - 45%
Click to expand...
How many of those 40 games did he play or start ? Not many IIRC
And he wanted to go. He had a new mega contract lined up in china and their season starts at a different time to ours
Not replacing him was poor but then maybe that’s why we spent £60M on Tubby NDombele
 
billyiddo said:
Not backing Mitchell and then abandoning the DoF style setup up altogether - all our problems come back to player contracts and recruitment.

Having a 'transfer committee' that leaves our best manager in decades feeling disgruntled and not part of the decision making process.

Not taking heed of said best managers warnings that the squad was facing a long and painful rebuild because of issues relating to player recruitment and then having the audacity to blame him when what he was warning us about came to fruition.
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We have had 1 contract issue and we don’t know what was said behind the scenes by the club and that player

player recruitment has been a big issue though. Someone thinks the French league is a great place for us to bu6 from which has never really worked out for us IMO (can’t think of one that’s been a genuine success but a lot of who have ranged between average to mediocre at times). The German league is a good hunting ground for us actually and 2 of our best signings have come from there in Son and Berbs

I’d love to see these Poch quotes you refer too because i don’t remember them as you say. I do know the manager signed a mega long term contract along with Kane and Alli and the season we didn’t sign anyone he was talking about us being brave. That’s also a then in his book isn’t it, being brave.
 
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The defeat over the 2018/19 festive period to wolves or Watford. We were 1-0 up and grinding it out. Conceded an equaliser and crumbled.
you could see it, heads, hearts and legs went and we've never been the same since.
I said it at the time and I stick by it, this squad is done, and to compound it we have not refreshed enough in either numbers or quality.
 
scaramanga said:
That fudging book.
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He was badly advised when it comes to the book. Hanging players out to dry when you still manage them is not a good look. Whenever someone brings out a biography/autobiography, there will always be people who are upset because of the way they have been spoken about. Still don’t get why a manager with zero trophies thought it was a good idea to release a book.
 
I wouldnt put it down to a specific position, as there's a range of examples, but the trigger has been a gradual degrading of the squad and not keeping it fresh with high quality players. For example:

- Selling Walker and not getting in a top quality replacement. This was a downgrade
- Selling Trippier and not signing a replacement at all. Left us short of numbers
- Muddling through with only one left back last season, and who was a downgrade on Rose
- Selling Dembele (correct decision) without having a replacement lined up
- Not having a second CF for when Kane got injured (happened multiple times)
- Not planning proactively enough for the ageing of Toby and Jan

There's probably several others too. SAF highlighted the need to keep the Utd squad fresh during his tenure - our degrading of the squad and letting it go stale has been the opposite of this.

The root cause of all this is probably the financing of the stadium, even though Levy said that the stadium wouldnt impact transfers. You can debate whether the stadium is worth it or not, but it feels like teh leadership in the club have made the decision that they're happy for performances/results to be weaker for a few years...and that that is a price worth paying to get the stadium in place
 
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