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*** The Official Boxing/UFC/MMA thread ***

Parklaner81 said:
Those scores are way, way too wide. Joshua won but it wasn't the domination those scores suggest.
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Did Parker do anything? He was game, moving a lot, but landed next to nothing.

A profession performance from Joshua he controlled it. But would love to see some more aggression from him. He could drive into opponents more.


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SpurMeUp said:
Did Parker do anything? He was game, moving a lot, but landed next to nothing.

A profession performance from Joshua he controlled it. But would love to see some more aggression from him. He could drive into opponents more.


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Joshua didn't do a lot more. Never had Parker in serious trouble. It was a live fight all the way through which could've swung either way at any time. Right result but the scores short changed Parker's effort.
 
Parklaner81 said:
Joshua didn't do a lot more. Never had Parker in serious trouble. It was a live fight all the way through which could've swung either way at any time. Right result but the scores short changed Parker's effort.
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Joshua didn’t need to do more.

Still Joshua doesn’t have sheer street fighting aggression and the intensity of the greats. He’s more of a Lenox Lewis than a Tyson or Alli.

But then Lewis retired wealthy, sane and healthy. So cannot blame A.J. for a cautious approach.


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Ali wasn't always the aggessor. And I think Lenox Lewis is somewhat underated.

I still say Whyte beats Wilder and maybe AJ in the rematch. AJ Beats him in the rematch of the rematch.
 
DTA said:
Ali wasn't always the aggessor. And I think Lenox Lewis is somewhat underated.

I still say Whyte beats Wilder and maybe AJ in the rematch. AJ Beats him in the rematch of the rematch.
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In what regard do you consider Lewis to be underrated? He's generally considered one of the best heavyweights of all time. That he doesn't appear higher on some all-time lists is fairly easily explained by the fact that he didn't meet the best of his generation in their primes (or at all), and perhaps that he retired under a shadow to avoid a Klitschko rematch.
 
Parklaner81 said:
In what regard do you consider Lewis to be underrated? He's generally considered one of the best heavyweights of all time. That he doesn't appear higher on some all-time lists is fairly easily explained by the fact that he didn't meet the best of his generation in their primes (or at all), and perhaps that he retired under a shadow to avoid a Klitschko rematch.
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Didn't he fight Tyson, Hollyfield and the better Klitchko brother? As well as the legend Shannon Briggs who would you have liked him to fight?
 
DTA said:
Didn't he fight Tyson, Hollyfield and the better Klitchko brother? As well as the legend Shannon Briggs who would you have liked him to fight?
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He fought a slightly past peak Holyfield, a well past peak Tyson and took a hammering from Vitali Klitschko for a few rounds before retiring to avoid a rematch.

I'm a Lewis fan and rate him highly. But if he'd fought a peak Riddingdong Bowe (not necessarily his fault that he didn't) or a peak Tyson (when, for example, it was mandated in 1996?) he might well be ranked even higher than he is on those all time lists.
 
Parklaner81 said:
He fought a slightly past peak Holyfield, a well past peak Tyson and took a hammering from Vitali Klitschko for a few rounds before retiring to avoid a rematch.

I'm a Lewis fan and rate him highly. But if he'd fought a peak Riddingdong Bowe (not necessarily his fault that he didn't) or a peak Tyson (when, for example, it was mandated in 1996?) he might well be ranked even higher than he is on those all time lists.
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Fair analysis. I thought Hollyfield was there or there abouts when they fought ... Hollyfield was just about as tough as you can get (in terms of heart and will). And when Lennox retired with his 42 -2-1 (having avenged his only two losses) with a knockout rate in the 70%s wasn't he in his late 30s - thats a fair time to retire imho.... And with a record that many higher up on those list would be envious of.

All this is from memory though so I could be wide of the mark.
 
DTA said:
Fair analysis. I thought Hollyfield was there or there abouts when they fought ... Hollyfield was just about as tough as you can get (in terms of heart and will). And when Lennox retired with his 42 -2-1 (having avenged his only two losses) with a knockout rate in the 70%s wasn't he in his late 30s - thats a fair time to retire imho.... And with a record that many higher up on those list would be envious of.

All this is from memory though so I could be wide of the mark.
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That's all true enough, though I'd add again that his retirement came under a shadow due to the circumstances of his final fight (Klitschko). Also, Holyfield was 36/37 when he fought Lewis, while Lewis was 37 or thereabouts when he had his final fight.

Nothing I've said is meant to denigrate Lewis, but to illustrate that there are very good reasons that he isn't rated higher on all time lists.
 
Parklaner81 said:
That's all true enough, though I'd add again that his retirement came under a shadow due to the circumstances of his final fight (Klitschko). Also, Holyfield was 36/37 when he fought Lewis, while Lewis was 37 or thereabouts when he had his final fight.

Nothing I've said is meant to denigrate Lewis, but to illustrate that there are very good reasons that he isn't rated higher on all time lists.
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Fair play.
 
He went into that Vitali fight pretty out of shape after a terrible camp, managed to get the win (really is an interesting fight, when he realises he's losing and starts to give it some, he caught Vitali with some absolute bombs that didn't seem to do much but that cut was disgusting!) and probably saw it as the ideal time to go out with his money and brain intact.
 
Lennox Lewis for me is one of the greatest heavyweights of all time. HE was so underrated

For the fight Saturday, I think AJ is so lucky that Fury had his problems and he got to fight Wlad for vacant titles so early in his career because he is well ahead of his ability and would not be anywhere near the same point in any other era.

Parker could not do more because AJ managed the size difference but AJ was not golden. I don't rate AJ in all honesty, his same backfoot plant front plodding and one two action is boring, even Adam Smith was bored on Saturday in Coms and thats saying something.
 
I think a fit, motivated Fury beats all the top guys in the division, whether or not those fights ever materialise is another thing entirely.
 
superspurs said:
He went into that Vitali fight pretty out of shape after a terrible camp, managed to get the win (really is an interesting fight, when he realises he's losing and starts to give it some, he caught Vitali with some absolute bombs that didn't seem to do much but that cut was disgusting!) and probably saw it as the ideal time to go out with his money and brain intact.
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Agree with this, it was a very interesting fight and those cuts were utterly horrific. I have no problem at all with Lewis retiring when he did, but that fight left open questions that were never answered. Lewis did what was probably the right thing for him at the time, no issues there. The trouble is, the questions do affect the legacy in my opinion - something that he has to accept as the price for going out on a questionable result and declining to rematch Klitschko.
 
Parklaner81 said:
Agree with this, it was a very interesting fight and those cuts were utterly horrific. I have no problem at all with Lewis retiring when he did, but that fight left open questions that were never answered. Lewis did what was probably the right thing for him at the time, no issues there. The trouble is, the questions do affect the legacy in my opinion - something that he has to accept as the price for going out on a questionable result and declining to rematch Klitschko.
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60 stitches I believe, have vivid memories of one of his corner men sticking his finger right into it to stem the blood, barbaric.

I do tend to agree on the legacy side of things, if you go on some boxing forums they still argue to this day over that fight and his decision to retire. But I still think he deserves to have his name mentioned alongside the greats, maybe not top tier but he did dominate.

Some might say that the division took a total nose dive after he retired and is only now possibly getting back to the status it once had in the good old days.
 
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superspurs said:
I think a fit, motivated Fury beats all the top guys in the division, whether or not those fights ever materialise is another thing entirely.
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I really struggle to envisage Fury beating Joshua. He might be able to outbox and frustrate him for a few rounds, but if a fight breaks out at any point, Fury's getting ko'd. I imagine that for Fury, the Klitschko fight would be the blueprint again - frustrate and don't engage, but Joshua would bring far more pressure than Klitschko did that night. I don't consider Joshua unbeatable by any stretch, I'm just not convinced Fury is the one who'll beat him.

superspurs said:
60 stitches I believe, have vivid memories of one of his corner men sticking his finger right into it to stem the blood, barbaric.

I do tend to agree on the legacy side of things, if you go on some boxing forums they still argue to this day over that fight and his decision to retire. But I still think he deserves to have his name mentioned alongside the greats, maybe not top tier but he did dominate.

Some might say that the division took a total nose dive after he retired and is only now possibly getting back to the status it once had in the good old days.
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Yeah I don't dispute any of that. I personally rate Lewis as top 5 all time or thereabouts and I don't think too many people would dispute that...which is why the claim that he is underrated puzzled me. It's that claim I was arguing against, not that Lewis is an all time great (though it could also be added that he was utterly classless in 'victory' after the Klitschko fight). I did see one all-time table that placed him something like 11th, which I would consider absurdly low, but surely that isn't a widely opinion? If it is, then yes, he's underrated! But I honestly doubt it.
 
Parklaner81 said:
I really struggle to envisage Fury beating Joshua. He might be able to outbox and frustrate him for a few rounds, but if a fight breaks out at any point, Fury's getting ko'd. I imagine that for Fury, the Klitschko fight would be the blueprint again - frustrate and don't engage, but Joshua would bring far more pressure than Klitschko did that night. I don't consider Joshua unbeatable by any stretch, I'm just not convinced Fury is the one who'll beat him.



Yeah I don't dispute any of that. I personally rate Lewis as top 5 all time or thereabouts and I don't think too many people would dispute that...which is why the claim that he is underrated puzzled me. It's that claim I was arguing against, not that Lewis is an all time great (though it could also be added that he was utterly classless in 'victory' after the Klitschko fight). I did see one all-time table that placed him something like 11th, which I would consider absurdly low, but surely that isn't a widely opinion? If it is, then yes, he's underrated! But I honestly doubt it.
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I saw something with him outside the top 10 of all time as well. And that' what made me say he underated. If it is as you say that he is rated by most in the top 5 then... well then that' not underating him at all.... arguably the opposite.

I think he is comfortably in the top 10.

Have you got many links with him in the top 5?
 
Parklaner81 said:
This ranks him 6th https://www.telegraph.co.uk/boxing/...-heavyweight-boxers-of-all-time/lennox-lewis/

This 7th https://www.boxinginsider.com/columns/ten-great-heavyweights-time/

5th https://www.msn.com/en-gb/sport/box...weight-boxers-of-all-time/ss-BBzZFol#image=13
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So only one top five then? Him being in the top ten is fair maybe I was influenced by the list I saw which saw him outside it. And the geneal lack of appreciation I think he receives (possibly from layman) boxing fans. He has an a very good record and I think the only undisputed heavyweight champion to beat to have avenged all his defeats... Or did Ali do that as well? I'
Im boxing fan but no expert. So interesed to hear more learned (is that how you spell it?) Opinions
 
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