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The case for the defence

MKSpur

MKSpur

Christian Ziege
Foyth and Aurier this week, Trippier and Sanchez at other points in the season, we’ve had a couple of inconsistent performances from our defenders.
Posted elsewhere this is not to be unexpected for the young centre backs and even Aurier is still much improved admittedly from a low starting point.

Could the issue be that we switch between the back 3 and 4 be a part of the issue? As a wing back I’d expect to be taking a higher starting position and would hope one of the centre backs could help cover my tracking back, but how does this impact the centre backs positioning? I saw Sissoko pointing to Foyth to go out to the ball to cover a cross from Auriers side (ironically he flicked the cross backward from his near post positioning) and even Toby caught out playing Burnley on.

Or a case of us not having the quality an axis of dembele and Wanyama / Dier midfield gave us meaning the defence was less exposed?
 
Sanchez, Foyth and all of our full-backs have not been good enough this season overall. Sanchez and Foyth may come good, hopefully they just need more experience, though if Sanchez doesn't kick on a bit next season I would start to worry about him.

Vertonghen and Toby have been playing pretty well this season, though I don't think either of them have hit the heights of previous seasons in terms of pure defending.

We aren't as strong as we were in the full-back area as when we had Walker and Rose at their best. Davies has struggled for fitness and form this season. Trippier has had a poor season, Aurier is Aurier (he's improved but still hasn't played consistently well).

So I think it's individuals more than tactics. The overall performance of our defenders hasn't been good enough. We have become a bit of a pussy team at the back, not standing up well to the physical battle (see defeats at Watford and Burnley and problems Rondon caused us with a limited number of attacks v Saudi Sportswashing Machine in the game against them).

We could do worse than to play a back 4 with Dier at right-back imo. Toby and Vert centre halves, Rose on the left. We might then need a fit Wanyama in the '2' infront of them though, particularly if we want to play Winks in there. And that let's us play Eriksen, Dele and Son off of Kane. That's probably our best team right now, though I'm not completely sold on Winks in a midfield 2 (I think his lack of athleticism might cost us defensively).

Regardless of formation, we need individuals who are winning the 1v1 battles all over the pitch. We have been far too slow and weak in the areas of full-back, centre-half and central midfield.
 
Good questions - I don’t agree that having Dier/Wanyama would necessarily make us any better defensively. Because our main defensive midfielder is Sissoko currently who consistently has to cover the RB role, he clearly has instructions to do that - you’ll find him there as much as you’ll find him in the centre which leaves the CM area more exposed even though he does get around the pitch brilliantly. If we had more reliable RBs he could just sit in the centre and boss that area but we don’t. I like Aurier, but if we could upgrade in that area I think you’ll find it would have a positive knock on effect to the rest of the defence and team as a whole....
 
I thinks it’s a combination of things:

- Right back is a major area of weakness in the team. We need to upgrade on Aurier and Trippier. I simply don’t buy that we can’t upgrade on them.

- Winks and Wanyama have done fine jobs but they aren’t superhuman and as others have said and they can’t cover other areas as the pitch such as RB for example and offer solidity to the defence. Another area of the team that we need upgrades in and we needed those upgrades yesterday.

- individually we haven’t played well enough or as a unit. Toby and Verts have been good and haven’t made any glaring errors to speak of but I don’t think it would be unfair to say they haven’t been anywhere near their best for the most part since this season. Sanchez and Foyth aren’t ready to start in a back four without one of Toby or Verts holding their hand IMO.

- We concede too many chances in games in general. Even against team like Soton we have rode our luck and only poor finishing from the opposition has saved our bacon.
 
Not only are we missing dier and or Wanyama but also dele and lamela who defend from the front with their harrying and tackling.
We are never going to get that from son and Eriksen, not a criticism of them but it is true.
Yesterday I'd have taken Foyth off and brought on lamela to help in the middle.
 
glasgowspur said:
Not only are we missing dier and or Wanyama but also dele and lamela who defend from the front with their harrying and tackling.
We are never going to get that from son and Eriksen, not a criticism of them but it is true.
Yesterday I'd have taken Foyth off and bought on lamela to help in the middle.
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We are missing the Wanyama of 2 seasons ago not the current incumbent who frankly looks far too slow. I am not convinced at all by Dier as a defensive midfielder so I am not sure we are missing him other than a rotation option. Winks is terrific and I agree with @harr1984 above post re: Sissoko covering the right. This is certainly an area where we could do with a top quality upgrade as long as Winks is given time to grow.

I also think a defensive leader like De ligt would be a terrific up grade on what we have. I also like the look of Maguire and Tarkowski.
 
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glasgowspur said:
Not only are we missing dier and or Wanyama but also dele and lamela who defend from the front with their harrying and tackling.
We are never going to get that from son and Eriksen, not a criticism of them but it is true.
Yesterday I'd have taken Foyth off and bought on lamela to help in the middle.
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Eriksen regularly covers more ground than anyone else on the pitch. He may not be as aggressive as Alli and Lamela but he still works very hard for the team.

Toby and Jan have both been good, they just haven’t hit the heights that we all know they can.

As Rob said, we miss Wanyama from the 2016/17 season who was a beast.
 
Robspur12 said:
We are missing the Wanyama of 2 seasons ago not the current incumbent who frankly looks far too slow. I am not convinced at all by Dier as a defensive midfielder so I am not sure we are missing him other than a rotation option. Winks is terrific and I agree with @harr1984 above post re: Sissoko covering the right. This is certainly an area where we could do with a top quality upgrade as long as Winks is given time to grow.

I also think a defensive leader like De ligt would be a terrific up grade on what we have. I also like the look of Maguire and Tarkowski.
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Ok, you don't rate dier, Sissoko or Wanyama by the sounds of it. Do you agree that we that type of player, especially against teams like Burnley, Watford and wolves?
A midfield of son, Eriksen and winks is IMHO too lightweight against these teams.
 
Jurgen the German said:
Eriksen regularly covers more ground than anyone else on the pitch. He may not be as aggressive as Alli and Lamela but he still works very hard for the team.

Toby and Jan have both been good, they just haven’t hit the heights that we all know they can.

As Rob said, we miss Wanyama from the 2016/17 season who was a beast.
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Eriksen does cover a lot of ground but against bigger more physical teams he seldom gets close to them, they are not in the least worried about Eriksen tackling them.
 
glasgowspur said:
Ok, you don't rate dier, Sissoko or Wanyama by the sounds of it. Do you agree that we that type of player, especially against teams like Burnley, Watford and wolves?
A midfield of son, Eriksen and winks is IMHO too lightweight against these teams.
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I rate Sissoko, despite others reticence towards him. Wanyama of two seasons ago too. But Wanyama now not really. Dier, I don't think would have made as much difference as Alli; I feel Dier is a little overrated as a midfielder. Alli would have given us a runner behind the Burnley defence, as well as being able to put a foot in in the midfield. I also believe we could do with a leader in defence. In that area we were owned by Tarkowski and Ben Mee. It's games like Burnley away where I believe we miss a defensive leader a la King.

It's not a popular opinion on here but I would cash in on Alderweireld and ideally bring in someone with leadership qualities such as De Ligt. We need to start succession planning away from Toby and Jan. I said I also like both Tarkowski and Maguire.
 
glasgowspur said:
Eriksen does cover a lot of ground but against bigger more physical teams he seldom gets close to them, they are not in the least worried about Eriksen tackling them.
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Eriksen isnt about tackling though. He is about pressing and being in the right position to make interceptions. We have played other physical teams this season and come out on top. Burnley at Home was a case in point where Eriksen was outstanding. Saturday was just a poor game.
 
Robspur12 said:
Eriksen isnt about tackling though. He is about pressing and being in the right position to make interceptions. We have played other physical teams this season and come out on top. Burnley at Home was a case in point where Eriksen was outstanding. Saturday was just a poor game.
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Never said he was, in fact have always argued just what you have said. But I don't think we can get away with it when the midfield is so lightweight. Winks tries and is a decent tackler but son and Eriksen struggling with it. Without a shield for the back line we really miss dele and lamela.
It's just typical of our luck with injury this season.
Big agreement on a leader, hoped bentaleb would grow into it, Danny Rose or dier looked decent shouts as well at one stage.
 
glasgowspur said:
Never said he was, in fact have always argued just what you have said. But I don't think we can get away with it when the midfield is so lightweight. Winks tries and is a decent tackler but son and Eriksen struggling with it. Without a shield for the back line we really miss dele and lamela.
It's just typical of our luck with injury this season.
Big agreement on a leader, hoped bentaleb would grow into it, Danny Rose or dier looked decent shouts as well at one stage.
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I agree we miss Alli and Lamela’s aggression. That said, Lamela simply hasn’t played well enough to justify a start recently. Son has been our best player this season which is why Lamela and Moura can’t get in the team. Funny how people up until recently called Son inconsistent and yet he’s scored 10+ league goals 3 seasons in a row. That’s the definition of consistency in my view.
 
glasgowspur said:
Not only are we missing dier and or Wanyama but also dele and lamela who defend from the front with their harrying and tackling.
We are never going to get that from son and Eriksen, not a criticism of them but it is true.
Yesterday I'd have taken Foyth off and bought on lamela to help in the middle.
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This is bang on.

I mentioned in the Dele thread earlier in the season that he does a lot of dirty work along with the flair stuff.

With him, Lamela, and also Moura not playing we are basically inviting teams to come through the middle of their own half of the pitch quite freely and then we seem to be under pressure.

I think we defend from the front much better with the 4231 setup.
 
Jurgen the German said:
I agree we miss Alli and Lamela’s aggression. That said, Lamela simply hasn’t played well enough to justify a start recently. Son has been our best player this season which is why Lamela and Moura can’t get in the team. Funny how people up until recently called Son inconsistent and yet he’s scored 10+ league goals 3 seasons in a row. That’s the definition of consistency in my view.
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Son has been undropable since his return from the asain games, and Eriksen always has that bit of magic in him, just in games like Burnley they need a platform to play off and atm we don't have it.
 
I think the whole team has been a yard and a half off pace,and to have won 20 games is quite remarkable,if we played like we did in the last year at WHL we be top i think by good few points,but i think sides have sussed out our style at the moment ,when our full backs push up so much then leave space either side of our centre backs,and then lose the ball by being careless or not closing down quick enough,we're getting caught out e.g the Man Ure game being the classic example.How many games have we seen where we start poor,the usual defensive mistake or own goal... then pick it up a bit and then claim the game in the last 15 minutes,its been workmanlike at the moment not free wheeling at all,its like waiting for someone to put a classic dance record on and everyone starts to get up and dance the night away lol...
 
Feels like a long time ago that we had these 2 warriors dominating midfields across the land... such a pity both became so darned injury prone :(

 
For a defensive manager and an blend of experienced players we sure are cut open very easily these days.

Walker Peters should not have allowed the cross to come in but 2 defenders in the box and then Rose well I dont have the words to describe him now.
 
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