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The Art of VAR

Discussion in 'General Football' started by Gutter Boy, 28 Feb 2018.

  1. parklane1

    parklane1 Andy Thompson

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    A year down the line and i am still hearing that old excuse.
     
  2. galeforce

    galeforce Tony Galvin

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    It’s literally been one round of first class CL games.

    We’ve given the single ref system 100 years and it’s still fudging brick.

    It would be mad to not try something else.
     
  3. parklane1

    parklane1 Andy Thompson

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    Selective choices abound.:rolleyes:
     
  4. the dza

    the dza Christian Ziege

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    I've always thought they should have some sort of program to get ex-pros into refereeing. Obviously, we are talking lower level pros (or semi-pro) from league 2 or whatever, who can't afford to retire. Surely they'd make much better refs? Don't most rubgy refs come from a background of playing the game? (I might be imagining that).

    When that's been running for 10 years +, there should be plenty to choose from. Then get these people on the panels who decide rule changes, VAR etc. And banish the likes of Mike Dean forever.
     
  5. elltrev

    elltrev Naybet

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    The trouble with VAR is that when referees STILL make a wrong or contentious decision with the benefit of VAR, it’s extra infuriating compared to when refs make a wrong or contentious decision without VAR. I for one am still fuming about the Man U penalty for that very reason!

    So in weighing up VAR you have to weigh up the benefit of getting more decisions right vs the downsides of more delays to the game and extra fury when refs still make bad calls.

    On the handball rule - I have no idea how a group of people have decided to move from ‘hand in an unnatural position’ to ‘natural silhouettes’ and ‘making yourself bigger’ - it’s just even more fudging ambiguous! And then Peter Walton, a ref of more than a decade, starts mentioning ‘not taking responsibility’ and ‘turning his back’ - nothing to do with the fudging rules! Absolute shambles.
     
    galeforce, Gazza Dazzla and r-u-s-x like this.
  6. nayimfromthehalfwayline

    nayimfromthehalfwayline Tom Huddlestone

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    That really is the crux of it. Id happily see some delays in game if at the end of the day we got that penalty we should have and won.

    Id take that all day long. I dont imagine many people go home after a bad call blissed out at the romanticism of the game, lauding the human error etc.

    I like to have things as "right" as they can be. And VAR seems to be making more right calls, which can only be good.

    Clearly others take a very different view, and thats basically where the argument comes from, isnt it?


    Not VAR, REFS.

    VAR is a tool. Its not an automated decision machine. It has that fabled human error people against VAR are so attached to, but for some reason they dont like it when it happens in the booth - only on the field.
     
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  7. r-u-s-x

    r-u-s-x Young-Pyo Lee

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    VAR = Video Assisted Referee - VAR gets it wrong its the package. We don't like human error, we can put up with it as its better than the alternative.
     
  8. r-u-s-x

    r-u-s-x Young-Pyo Lee

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    Hand in an unnatural position was not in the laws of the game but in advice - the big change is they have removed the need for hand ball needing to be deliberate. It is still a shambles as different interpretations, but this is the change.
     
  9. elltrev

    elltrev Naybet

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    Have you got a source for that? Everything that I’ve seen says that as of right now, the written law still just says that a handball must be deliberate, and that it’s only the advice or guidance on what constitutes deliberate (e.g. unnatural position, making yourself bigger etc) that’s changed to date.
     
  10. r-u-s-x

    r-u-s-x Young-Pyo Lee

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    I am agreeing with what you say (just added that unnatural position was not in the laws)- that the change next year is away from being deliberate.
     
    galeforce likes this.
  11. elltrev

    elltrev Naybet

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    See my post above - it IS more infuriating when a ref makes a call you think is wrong when they’ve had the benefit of seeing multiple replays. You can forgive it a bit more when they’ve had to make the call live.
     
  12. elltrev

    elltrev Naybet

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    Ah I see, you mean the change from next year. Hopefully between now and then they’ll make the language clearer than it ever has been to date!
     
  13. r-u-s-x

    r-u-s-x Young-Pyo Lee

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    No such luck from what I have seen - it will still rely on what you consider where you have your hands without making yourself big, they are just removing the need to be deliberate.
     
  14. nayimfromthehalfwayline

    nayimfromthehalfwayline Tom Huddlestone

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    Its the human element of the package, the actual Referee making the call. Just as it would be on the field.

    Except, as you know, it should happen much less frequently and much less blatantly given the resources of the Video Assistance.


    Of course it is. It should also be far far less frequent. Id take a really bricky VAR decision like PSG and loads more correct decisions made over the consistent poor refereeing we deal with now.
     
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  15. elltrev

    elltrev Naybet

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    I’m genuinely not sure I would, but obviously that’s just personal preference. Maybe if Spurs start to get one or two correct overturns via VAR I’ll start to change my tune :D
     
  16. r-u-s-x

    r-u-s-x Young-Pyo Lee

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    not seen this before VAR handbook - lots of detail I have not seen - https://www.knvb.nl/downloads/bestand/9844/var-handbook-v8_final



    one detail - For a tippy tappy team when does an attacking move start?

    For red card offences (except DOGSO), only the incident is reviewed. For goals, penalty
    incidents and DOGSO offences, the referee can review the play as far back as the start of
    the attacking move which led to the incident and, if relevant, how possession of the ball
    was gained at the start of that phase of play.

    *DOGSO -denying an obvious goal scoring opportunity
     
  17. Grays_1890

    Grays_1890 Milija Aleksic

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    I tell you what would make the game more enjoyable...making VAR abit longer...that would be lovely
     
  18. Grays_1890

    Grays_1890 Milija Aleksic

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    Do they add the time that is taking for VAR?
     
  19. Rorschach

    Rorschach Erik Thorstvedt

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    It's VARiable.




    I'll get my coat.
     
  20. parklane1

    parklane1 Andy Thompson

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    A
    A mate of mine is a City S/T holder and he was at the game last night, there were several incidents with VAR which held up play for 5 minutes ( according to him) yet only 2 minutes were added for extra time. If true then its another farce to add to a long list.
     

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