Tanguy Ndombele

[Bedfordspurs]

Yes he does , he has never really been a defensive player his strengths are pushing forward.

Although he did get back to pull son over when he was through on goal

 

[monkeybarry]

One of the last things Ndombele did before getting subbed against Chelsea was stick with Rudiger as he powered forward and get a tackle in.

No doubts he could do with better fitness/stamina. No doubts he's not as good defensively as Hojbjerg. But circus act? Hoddle/Maradona? That's unfair to me.

He started against Chelsea, perhaps the best team in the league. For 45 minutes we were the better team and it's not like we were carved open in his defensive area at all. We collapsed in the second half, unable to deal with them. We took him off for the more defensively solid Skipp with the much lauded Hojbjerg taking his role. Did we all of a sudden get significantly better defensively?

I don't think that collapse was down to him. A period of pressure like that was probably always coming as we hadn't been able to take the lead and had spent a lot of energy pressing. We probably needed to ride our luck a bit. They're really good.

I really hope Nuno sticks with him in the league now. It would be really rough to chuck him in for one of the toughest games of the season as his first league start and then leave him out again. It's the kind of thing that would make people (perhaps rightly) conspiratorial about Mourinho. Give a player a really difficult game just to show that he's right and the player "isn't up to it".

Just keep starting him as long as he's working hard. Good things will happen.

How long are you going to wait?
One season? Two? No, we're already there - and nothing has changed.
Plenty of skill for sure, that's the Hoddle/Maradona comparison - immense skill, but they also contribute far far more and consistently; you can't say that about Ndombele, he just doesn't contribute to the team enough.
As far as fitness goes - that is an essential part of his job; fitness is not a luxury for an elite sports person, it's a basic; a basic he doesn't have and hasn't shown for the two years he's been here.

 

[afsoc4life]

Needs to be more focused. Was IMHO responsible for Wolves coming back into game. Has immense talent but let me down today.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Needs to be more focused. Was IMHO responsible for Wolves coming back into game. Has immense talent but let me down today.

Problem wit( him is we all know the guys got crazy skills, but so does the opposition. If they can snipe that ball off him, the chances are there onto a counter
His effort on the corner was woeful, but why was he marking Dedonker. That was odd to me
But he scored a good gaol and did some really good stuff.

 

[Bullet]

He was our best player for 30 mins, loads of good stuff.
So comfortable to receive the ball and play the right pass.

Then a very weak effort to defend Dendoncker at the corner. Schoolboy.

Then got robbed as our 'last man in midfield'.
I actually think Ndombele and Skipp were sometimes timid to turn and play forwards, lots of immediately knocking it backwards with 1 touch because they didn't dare to turn and go forwards. This contributed to us falling back into bad patterns of play,

In general Ndombele is absolutely brilliant at certain things, we must find a way to unleash this immense talent in the right areas.
If he tires after 60 minutes that is fine, we can swap him for someone else.

 

[thfcsteff]

He was our best player for 30 mins, loads of good stuff.
So comfortable to receive the ball and play the right pass.

Then a very weak effort to defend Dendoncker at the corner. Schoolboy.

Then got robbed as our 'last man in midfield'.
I actually think Ndombele and Skipp were sometimes timid to turn and play forwards, lots of immediately knocking it backwards with 1 touch because they didn't dare to turn and go forwards. This contributed to us falling back into bad patterns of play,

In general Ndombele is absolutely brilliant at certain things, we must find a way to unleash this immense talent in the right areas.
If he tires after 60 minutes that is fine, we can swap him for someone else.

I said the same in our group. I think fear is a hard thing to shake, and winning in the end tonight will help hugely.

Sunday is well within our grasp; it is in our heads where we need to win it because we are better than them.

 

[SteveAWOL]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1440799063520153613

 

[braineclipse]

How long are you going to wait?
One season? Two? No, we're already there - and nothing has changed.
Plenty of skill for sure, that's the Hoddle/Maradona comparison - immense skill, but they also contribute far far more and consistently; you can't say that about Ndombele, he just doesn't contribute to the team enough.
As far as fitness goes - that is an essential part of his job; fitness is not a luxury for an elite sports person, it's a basic; a basic he doesn't have and hasn't shown for the two years he's been here.

A week ago he played his first game of fotball in months and months. A couple of weeks before that we were happy to sell him.

Some very good moments, some poor moments, but overall good in the three games so far. Struggled to complete 90 minutes yesterday, but he did complete 90 minutes.

To me there's progress. As long as there's progress I'm happy to wait, regardless of what happened before. Like with all players.

 

[Badger]

A week ago he played his first game of fotball in months and months. A couple of weeks before that we were happy to sell him.

Some very good moments, some poor moments, but overall good in the three games so far. Struggled to complete 90 minutes yesterday, but he did complete 90 minutes.

To me there's progress. As long as there's progress I'm happy to wait, regardless of what happened before. Like with all players.

I remember EXACTLY the same arguments being made so many years ago about a certain Mr. Sergei Rebrov.

And we all know how that panned out...

 

[braineclipse]

I remember EXACTLY the same arguments being made so many years ago about a certain Mr. Sergei Rebrov.

And we all know how that panned out...

I fail to see the relevance, but fair enough.

Do you disagree that there's progress?

I have very little doubt that if he can be fit enough to play, motivated enough and in the right role his quality will shine through.

I have very few concerns about his ability on the ball at all. It's all about defensive work and fitness, like it's been since he came here. He's showing progress in those key areas.

 

[AdamB]

He was our best player for 30 mins, loads of good stuff.
So comfortable to receive the ball and play the right pass.

Then a very weak effort to defend Dendoncker at the corner. Schoolboy.

Then got robbed as our 'last man in midfield'.
I actually think Ndombele and Skipp were sometimes timid to turn and play forwards, lots of immediately knocking it backwards with 1 touch because they didn't dare to turn and go forwards. This contributed to us falling back into bad patterns of play,

In general Ndombele is absolutely brilliant at certain things, we must find a way to unleash this immense talent in the right areas.
If he tires after 60 minutes that is fine, we can swap him for someone else.

The criticism for the second goal is fair, however for the first it makes no sense that he was marking Dendoncker - similar to why Dele was marking Thiago on Sunday

 

[braineclipse]

The criticism for the second goal is fair, however for the first it makes no sense that he was marking Dendoncker - similar to why Dele was marking Thiago on Sunday

Criticism for both is fair, but should be put in context imo as you do for the first one. Even though there's a mismatch he should do better, but these things happen.

Second one, yeah. That's "supposed to happen" imo. We play with some risk, sometimes that results in lost possession. He wasn't the only one taking risk, he wasn't the only one that could have lost the ball in a dangerous area. He did, that's unfortunate. Just make sure it doesn't happen too often.

 

[Badger]

I fail to see the relevance, but fair enough.

Do you disagree that there's progress?

I have very little doubt that if he can be fit enough to play, motivated enough and in the right role his quality will shine through.

I have very few concerns about his ability on the ball at all. It's all about defensive work and fitness, like it's been since he came here. He's showing progress in those key areas.

I think the relevance is pretty clear... another high-cost, high-expectation foreign player who continues to underwhelm in his output but where fans want him to succeed so much that they continue to find excuses for his performances, exaggerating the positives and ignoring the negatives.... The fact you say "if he can be fit enough to play, motivated enough" is the ultimate statement of indictment!!

Progress compared to when? Two years ago? Last year? Honestly don't see that much. He was always capable of a sublime move or an outstanding goal. He was equally likely to blow hot and cold in the same match, become pretty much anonymous after the 60 minute, fall down on the slightest contact and then bitch because a foul has not been given, remaining on the ground and leave his teammates with a player short in opponent turnovers... Above all he never looked like he would be the consistent creative hub that the team needs... neither when he arrived nor today.

I hope that Ndombele breaks the mold but his situation is too similar to Rebrov, Soldado etc for my liking....

 

[Finney Is Back]

The criticism for the second goal is fair, however for the first it makes no sense that he was marking Dendoncker - similar to why Dele was marking Thiago on Sunday

I think it's because we are playing a mixed zonal, man-to-man system with our 3 best headers of the ball being the zonal guys. For the goal yesterday either we have nobody covering a zone that far out or whoever was doing so didn't do their job. Even accounting for that Ndombele was still weak and needed to do more to ensure that Dendoncker couldn't get in a clean header.

 

[Jurgen the German]

I think we should persist with him. Yes he has some major question marks regarding fitness and consistency but aren’t exactly blessed with creativity in the squad and i just worry where it’s going to come from if we play a midfield 3 consisting of Hojbjerg, Skipp, Alli or Winks. Even Lo Celso doesn’t really create much.

 

[braineclipse]

I think the relevance is pretty clear... another high-cost, high-expectation foreign player who continues to underwhelm in his output but where fans want him to succeed so much that they continue to find excuses for his performances, exaggerating the positives and ignoring the negatives.... The fact you say "if he can be fit enough to play, motivated enough" is the ultimate statement of indictment!!

Progress compared to when? Two years ago? Last year? Honestly don't see that much. He was always capable of a sublime move or an outstanding goal. He was equally likely to blow hot and cold in the same match, become pretty much anonymous after the 60 minute, fall down on the slightest contact and then bitch because a foul has not been given, remaining on the ground and leave his teammates with a player short in opponent turnovers... Above all he never looked like he would be the consistent creative hub that the team needs... neither when he arrived nor today.

I hope that Ndombele breaks the mold but his situation is too similar to Rebrov, Soldado etc for my liking....

I think his output so far this season has been fine. A goal, been involved in some of our better moves in the games he's played in. Actually able to break lines of pressure both through skill and passing. Rebrov and Soldado had the opposite problem, not enough attacking impact.

At one point I'm accused of ignoring the negatives, in the same paragraph me bringing attention to what has been negatives from him is the ultimate statement of indictment. It surely can't be both?

Progress compared to any previous point really. I think those box to box roles in this system are really demanding on the midfielders playing that role. I thought starts in that role would come only with time. Nuno saw enough in that regard to start him vs. Chelsea. And he did rather well defensively until taken off. Progress.

He's struggled with fitness/stamina. He's gone from not being involved in preseason, 70 minutes against Rennes, 60 against Chelsea and then the full game against Wolves. The last one fairly intense, end to end at times. He struggled towards the end, but got through it. Progress.

I get from your indictment comment that you most likely see that as just the minimum that should be required. I see it as progress, perhaps a result of good work on the training ground.

 

[monkeybarry]

A week ago he played his first game of fotball in months and months. A couple of weeks before that we were happy to sell him.

Some very good moments, some poor moments, but overall good in the three games so far. Struggled to complete 90 minutes yesterday, but he did complete 90 minutes.

To me there's progress. As long as there's progress I'm happy to wait, regardless of what happened before. Like with all players.

I'm not calling being directly responsible for throwing away a two goal lead "progress".
If he was a youth player, maybe.
If he'd signed in August, maybe.
After two years? No.
The way people talk about him is not what you would expect from a first team player, and isn't what you should accept from a first team player.

Poor fitness? Fine - you're not an elite footballer.
Inconsistent? Fine - you're not a reliable elite player.
Prone to errors? Fine - you're not reliable as part of a team.

It's time to stop makes excuses for him (I use excuse very deliberately) and demand he performs - because that is what he's employed to do.

 

[Bishop]

I'm not calling being directly responsible for throwing away a two goal lead "progress".
If he was a youth player, maybe.
If he'd signed in August, maybe.
After two years? No.
The way people talk about him is not what you would expect from a first team player, and isn't what you should accept from a first team player.

Poor fitness? Fine - you're not an elite footballer.
Inconsistent? Fine - you're not a reliable elite player.
Prone to errors? Fine - you're not reliable as part of a team.

It's time to stop makes excuses for him (I use excuse very deliberately) and demand he performs - because that is what he's employed to do.

But those errors are the first time he has directly been culpable for the goals we've conceded. Couple that with us being 2 goals up was down to him along with his general performance than I think you have to say on the balance the positives yesterday outweighed the negatives.

 

[braineclipse]

I'm not calling being directly responsible for throwing away a two goal lead "progress".
If he was a youth player, maybe.
If he'd signed in August, maybe.
After two years? No.
The way people talk about him is not what you would expect from a first team player, and isn't what you should accept from a first team player.

Poor fitness? Fine - you're not an elite footballer.
Inconsistent? Fine - you're not a reliable elite player.
Prone to errors? Fine - you're not reliable as part of a team.

It's time to stop makes excuses for him (I use excuse very deliberately) and demand he performs - because that is what he's employed to do.

So, can you make (two) costly errors and still show progress? I think yes.

First of all I've been very clear about where and how I'm seeing progress. Two errors doesn't say much about his fitness or defensive work. I guess a lack of concentration and awareness due to tiredness due to fitness levels is plausible, but if that was the case I would heve expected more errors to come later in the game, that didn't really happen.

Put simply. Can you show improved fitness and still make those two errors? Can you show improved defensive work and make those two errors? Why not?

 

[fernadez]

Real question is, take him out of the team and where is any sense of creativity coming from?