Tanguy Ndombele

[Finney Is Back]

One of the last things Ndombele did before getting subbed against Chelsea was stick with Rudiger as he powered forward and get a tackle in.

No doubts he could do with better fitness/stamina. No doubts he's not as good defensively as Hojbjerg. But circus act? Hoddle/Maradona? That's unfair to me.

He started against Chelsea, perhaps the best team in the league. For 45 minutes we were the better team and it's not like we were carved open in his defensive area at all. We collapsed in the second half, unable to deal with them. We took him off for the more defensively solid Skipp with the much lauded Hojbjerg taking his role. Did we all of a sudden get significantly better defensively?

I don't think that collapse was down to him. A period of pressure like that was probably always coming as we hadn't been able to take the lead and had spent a lot of energy pressing. We probably needed to ride our luck a bit. They're really good.

I really hope Nuno sticks with him in the league now. It would be really rough to chuck him in for one of the toughest games of the season as his first league start and then leave him out again. It's the kind of thing that would make people (perhaps rightly) conspiratorial about Mourinho. Give a player a really difficult game just to show that he's right and the player "isn't up to it".

Just keep starting him as long as he's working hard. Good things will happen.

There was no magic to Chelsea getting on top on Sunday. They stuck an extra midfielder in Kante on for the more attacking Mount which allowed them to control the midfield. Unfortunately our manager didn’t react to their tactical change.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

There was no magic to Chelsea getting on top on Sunday. They stuck an extra midfielder in Kante on for the more attacking Mount which allowed them to control the midfield. Unfortunately our manager didn’t react to their tactical change.

It wasn’t just any midfielder though
They brought in a player who is the best in the world in his position and gave him a task to do (which he does so well)
But I agree we didn’t react

 

[braineclipse]

There was no magic to Chelsea getting on top on Sunday. They stuck an extra midfielder in Kante on for the more attacking Mount which allowed them to control the midfield. Unfortunately our manager didn’t react to their tactical change.

The way I saw it they more or less smothered us in that first part of the second half, pressed higher, didn't allow us to play out. Got sustained attacks, we didn't find a way out. They put on Kante, changed the central midfield, but also upped their pressing.

I'm not sure what Nuno could have done to react. We had no players on the bench capable of turning us into a more press resistant team.

Seeing at this is the Ndombele thread. What we want in a situation like that is for one or two opportunities to counter attack. Ndombele, Lo Celso, possibly Kane or Hojbjerg getting out from pressure and launching a counter attack. As we saw from the second goal trying that comes with risk, but I think we have to try. We didn't get that successfully from any of our players really. That's a valid criticism of Ndombele, but should come with the realisation of that being a difficult and risky thing to do. Chelsea are really good at keeping that film happening.

I guess one option would have been Skipp on earlier, try to just sit back even more. They scored 5 minutes into the half. Not sure replacing Ndombele with Skipp a minute or two into the second half at 0-0 would have made us happy.

 

[Bishop]

The way I saw it they more or less smothered us in that first part of the second half, pressed higher, didn't allow us to play out. Got sustained attacks, we didn't find a way out. They put on Kante, changed the central midfield, but also upped their pressing.

I'm not sure what Nuno could have done to react. We had no players on the bench capable of turning us into a more press resistant team.

Seeing at this is the Ndombele thread. What we want in a situation like that is for one or two opportunities to counter attack. Ndombele, Lo Celso, possibly Kane or Hojbjerg getting out from pressure and launching a counter attack. As we saw from the second goal trying that comes with risk, but I think we have to try. We didn't get that successfully from any of our players really. That's a valid criticism of Ndombele, but should come with the realisation of that being a difficult and risky thing to do. Chelsea are really good at keeping that film happening.

I guess one option would have been Skipp on earlier, try to just sit back even more. They scored 5 minutes into the half. Not sure replacing Ndombele with Skipp a minute or two into the second half at 0-0 would have made us happy.

The mistake is the idea that Ndombele should have been replaced. He was our best player and also the most influential. All of our good play came with him involved in some way. Not playing him rally isn't an option.

Our difficulties came from two specific midfielders played out of position. Dele and GLC, neither looked comfortable or competent in what they were asked to do.

 

[braineclipse]

The mistake is the idea that Ndombele should have been replaced. He was our best player and also the most influential. All of our good play came with him involved in some way. Not playing him rally isn't an option.

Our difficulties came from two specific midfielders played out of position. Dele and GLC, neither looked comfortable or competent in what they were asked to do.

He was taken off because of fitness levels I assume. He looked disappointed to be taken off, perhaps he felt he had more to give, I don't know.

He started one of the most difficult games we're likely to have this season. If he was ready for that he should be ready to start just about any game we face this season, and he should.

Alli point is one for his thread.

GLC started because the only other option was Gil and he's 20 and a new signing. The GLC role wouldn't have been good for Alli either imo.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

The mistake is the idea that Ndombele should have been replaced. He was our best player and also the most influential. All of our good play came with him involved in some way. Not playing him rally isn't an option.

Our difficulties came from two specific midfielders played out of position. Dele and GLC, neither looked comfortable or competent in what they were asked to do.

agree with the last paragraph
But in that second half Tanguy was woeful.
First half he was available and wanted the ball
After he went down (around 40 mins) he then disappeared form the game.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

The way I saw it they more or less smothered us in that first part of the second half, pressed higher, didn't allow us to play out. Got sustained attacks, we didn't find a way out. They put on Kante, changed the central midfield, but also upped their pressing.

I'm not sure what Nuno could have done to react. We had no players on the bench capable of turning us into a more press resistant team.

Seeing at this is the Ndombele thread. What we want in a situation like that is for one or two opportunities to counter attack. Ndombele, Lo Celso, possibly Kane or Hojbjerg getting out from pressure and launching a counter attack. As we saw from the second goal trying that comes with risk, but I think we have to try. We didn't get that successfully from any of our players really. That's a valid criticism of Ndombele, but should come with the realisation of that being a difficult and risky thing to do. Chelsea are really good at keeping that film happening.

I guess one option would have been Skipp on earlier, try to just sit back even more. They scored 5 minutes into the half. Not sure replacing Ndombele with Skipp a minute or two into the second half at 0-0 would have made us happy.

I agree with this
Nuno could have made a structural change to the set up, but he would have needed a few minutes at least to see how they were gonna play. I assumed it was gonna be 4-4-2, but it ended up being 4–3-4 with Alonso bong further forward and kante doing his work behind lukaku and Haivertz.

 

[Bishop]

He was taken off because of fitness levels I assume. He looked disappointed to be taken off, perhaps he felt he had more to give, I don't know.

He started one of the most difficult games we're likely to have this season. If he was ready for that he should be ready to start just about any game we face this season, and he should.

Alli point is one for his thread.

GLC started because the only other option was Gil and he's 20 and a new signing. The GLC role wouldn't have been good for Alli either imo.

Neither of thier positions suited then or vice versa but that was a big problem. I think the match very much showed the limitations and lack of balance that the squad presents. We lack an AM and have done since Eriksen decided his future lay elsewhere. We don't have a right sided attacker, we don't really have a floating creator either. GLC got bunged on the right because he has a left foot but he's a CM not a WF, he can't play that role and everyone he's been put there he's looked brick. Dele just isn't a CM for me or at least isn't a CM I would want to sign for my team. He has a specific role that suits him and outside of that he is fairly limited.

agree with the last paragraph
But in that second half Tanguy was woeful.
First half he was available and wanted the ball
After he went down (around 40 mins) he then disappeared form the game.

I disagree that he went missing, I noticed in the 2nd half he was stationed on the right of the middle three and every time he came inside to challenge for the ball he made an effort to fill back in on the right so I think it was much more a tactical decision because he also played on the right hand side in the first half but given the overall dominance we had he was able to be more involved. But let's say you're 100% correct and he was woeful in the 2nd half there were 2 other players visibly worse than him for the entire match who offered not a great deal on the positive moments and nothing on the negative times. It still makes little sense that he was the one chosen to go off.

 

[Finney Is Back]

I agree with this
Nuno could have made a structural change to the set up, but he would have needed a few minutes at least to see how they were gonna play. I assumed it was gonna be 4-4-2, but it ended up being 4–3-4 with Alonso bong further forward and kante doing his work behind lukaku and Haivertz.

Alonso was getting that far forward because he didn't have to worry at all about Lo Celso. Had we had a decent attacking player on the right then Alonso could never have played as high up the pitch as he did.

I think Nuno should've changed us to a 4-5-1 type formation soon after Chelsea's change. We then could've gained superiority in midfield and given Chelsea a decision on what they should do with their 3 centre backs (I assume Tuchel would've either shifted one into midfield or replaced one with a midfielder but it would've been nice to have forced Tuchel to make another tactical change instead of his single change made at half time ensuring they absolutely dominated us for the rest of the game)

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Alonso was getting that far forward because he didn't have to worry at all about Lo Celso. Had we had a decent attacking player on the right then Alonso could never have played as high up the pitch as he did.

I think Nuno should've changed us to a 4-5-1 type formation soon after Chelsea's change. We then could've gained superiority in midfield and given Chelsea a decision on what they should do with their 3 centre backs (I assume Tuchel would've either shifted one into midfield or replaced one with a midfielder but it would've been nice to have forced Tuchel to make another tactical change instead of his single change made at half time ensuring they absolutely dominated us for the rest of the game)

Alonso always plays that far up
He rarely offers to defend
But kante made the difference by winning that all higher up and starting attacks further forward
Alonso was just primed to be benefit from that

 

[Finney Is Back]

Neither of thier positions suited then or vice versa but that was a big problem. I think the match very much showed the limitations and lack of balance that the squad presents. We lack an AM and have done since Eriksen decided his future lay elsewhere. We don't have a right sided attacker, we don't really have a floating creator either. GLC got bunged on the right because he has a left foot but he's a CM not a WF, he can't play that role and everyone he's been put there he's looked brick. Dele just isn't a CM for me or at least isn't a CM I would want to sign for my team. He has a specific role that suits him and outside of that he is fairly limited.




I disagree that he went missing, I noticed in the 2nd half he was stationed on the right of the middle three and every time he came inside to challenge for the ball he made an effort to fill back in on the right so I think it was much more a tactical decision because he also played on the right hand side in the first half but given the overall dominance we had he was able to be more involved. But let's say you're 100% correct and he was woeful in the 2nd half there were 2 other players visibly worse than him for the entire match who offered not a great deal on the positive moments and nothing on the negative times. It still makes little sense that he was the one chosen to go off.

We had numerical superiority in the midfield in the first half due to our full backs engaging Chelsea's wide players, Hojbjerg would cover the space in case balls went into Mount or Haivertz who were playing just off of Lukaku which meant that Dele and Ndombele could go directly up against Jorginho and Kovacic and stop them getting balls into Haivertz and Mount.

Tuchel realised this was happening so took off Mount and brought on Kante. This meant that Chelsea now had three players up against two in the middle (with Hojbjerg still having to cover the space in front of our back 4. This made it nigh on impossible for us to press them as they always had a spare man and meant that Chelsea could play the game pretty much entirely in our half of the pitch.

Tuchel basically showed why he is earning big money managing one of the big boys.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Neither of thier positions suited then or vice versa but that was a big problem. I think the match very much showed the limitations and lack of balance that the squad presents. We lack an AM and have done since Eriksen decided his future lay elsewhere. We don't have a right sided attacker, we don't really have a floating creator either. GLC got bunged on the right because he has a left foot but he's a CM not a WF, he can't play that role and everyone he's been put there he's looked brick. Dele just isn't a CM for me or at least isn't a CM I would want to sign for my team. He has a specific role that suits him and outside of that he is fairly limited.




I disagree that he went missing, I noticed in the 2nd half he was stationed on the right of the middle three and every time he came inside to challenge for the ball he made an effort to fill back in on the right so I think it was much more a tactical decision because he also played on the right hand side in the first half but given the overall dominance we had he was able to be more involved. But let's say you're 100% correct and he was woeful in the 2nd half there were 2 other players visibly worse than him for the entire match who offered not a great deal on the positive moments and nothing on the negative times. It still makes little sense that he was the one chosen to go off.

As I said on a previous thread he was regularly talking to Nuno on the right and several times the ball came into the centre and he turned his back almost
He IMO after half time looked like he didn’t want to be there
What’s clear is some see him going wide as him making space and others see him hiding
Nuno will know the answer though
And I do agree GLC and dele we’re worse

 

[Bedfordspurs]

We had numerical superiority in the midfield in the first half due to our full backs engaging Chelsea's wide players, Hojbjerg would cover the space in case balls went into Mount or Haivertz who were playing just off of Lukaku which meant that Dele and Ndombele could go directly up against Jorginho and Kovacic and stop them getting balls into Haivertz and Mount.

Tuchel realised this was happening so took off Mount and brought on Kante. This meant that Chelsea now had three players up against two in the middle (with Hojbjerg still having to cover the space in front of our back 4. This made it nigh on impossible for us to press them as they always had a spare man and meant that Chelsea could play the game pretty much entirely in our half of the pitch.

Tuchel basically showed why he is earning big money managing one of the big boys.

Agreed
He made that change and had kante in his locker
It won that part of the pitch that mattered and put them on the front foot instantly

 

[Finney Is Back]

Alonso always plays that far up
He rarely offers to defend
But kante made the difference by winning that all higher up and starting attacks further forward
Alonso was just primed to be benefit from that

Alonso wouldn't have played that high up if we'd had a player that could've hurt them on the RHS of our attack, Tuchel would've adjusted his position. Watching that game on Sunday I think the outcome would've been massively different if Nuno had got his RW target. Traore would've absolutely killed them on the counter, with him being able to run directly at Rudiger.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Agreed
He made that change and had kante in his locker
It won that part of the pitch that mattered and put them on the front foot instantly

Even if that had been a player of lower standard than Kante it still would've had the right result..... That change meant that they had numerical superiority in midfield and could control the game. We did nothing at all to counter his tactical switch.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Alonso wouldn't have played that high up if we'd had a player that could've hurt them on the RHS of our attack, Tuchel would've adjusted his position. Watching that game on Sunday I think the outcome would've been massively different if Nuno had got his RW target. Traore would've absolutely killed them on the counter, with him being able to run directly at Rudiger.

Having a real right winger would made a difference I agree
But I think that would have lead to Tuchel starting Chilwell if we had Traore
Alonso never plays defensive but decks as an attacker
Traore would suit Nuno in this set up
Although I’m much prefer Saint Maxim

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Even if that had been a player of lower standard than Kante it still would've had the right result..... That change meant that they had numerical superiority in midfield and could control the game. We did nothing at all to counter his tactical switch.

Kante is way better than anyone on their bench for that though
He makes that difference as he covers so much ground and rarely if ever misses that tackle

 

[Finney Is Back]

Having a real right winger would made a difference I agree
But I think that would have lead to Tuchel starting Chilwell if we had Traore
Alonso never plays defensive but decks as an attacker
Traore would suit Nuno in this set up
Although I’m much prefer Saint Maxim

Yes. I mentioned Saint Maxim as a good summer target for us in the summer transfer window thread before the end of last season.

I think Nuno needs that type of player to make the formation and tactics he is employing here at Spurs work as it seems that the midfield three's primary job is more defensive in nature and we don't seem to push the full backs up particularly high either.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Yes. I mentioned Saint Maxim as a good summer target for us in the summer transfer window thread before the end of last season.

I think Nuno needs that type of player to make the formation and tactics he is employing here at Spurs work as it seems that the midfield three's primary job is more defensive in nature and we don't seem to push the full backs up particularly high either.

I wonder if the full backs just need the right set up first (like we played on Sunday)
We won’t be playing a team as good as Chelsea much all season and the system (if not certain players) would work

 

[parklane1]

Alonso always plays that far up
He rarely offers to defend
But kante made the difference by winning that all higher up and starting attacks further forward
Alonso was just primed to be benefit from that

Yes he does , he has never really been a defensive player his strengths are pushing forward.