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'Soldier beheaded' outside barracks in Woolwich

thfcsteff said:
Mate...you do know that Bush and Bliar declared a 'war on terror' which isn't even remotely possible by the strictest definitions of the conditions necessary to declare and act of war. Many violent acts over the years have been declared 'terrorist acts' without any specific 'link' other than suspected. again, I am not a muslim but it appears to me that the media would never ever declare an act like this a 'terrorist' act because frankly, the backlash they'd receive in the current climate would be massive.

Frankly, I think the term 'terrorist act' has been way over-used anyway. Single disgraceful acts of violence are, for me, just that; to call them 'terrorism' just ratchets up the tension and the 'juiciness' of the story...
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Excellent post.
 
thfcsteff said:
Mate...you do know that Bush and Bliar declared a 'war on terror' which isn't even remotely possible by the strictest definitions of the conditions necessary to declare and act of war. Many violent acts over the years have been declared 'terrorist acts' without any specific 'link' other than suspected. again, I am not a muslim but it appears to me that the media would never ever declare an act like this a 'terrorist' act because frankly, the backlash they'd receive in the current climate would be massive.

Frankly, I think the term 'terrorist act' has been way over-used anyway. Single disgraceful acts of violence are, for me, just that; to call them 'terrorism' just ratchets up the tension and the 'juiciness' of the story...
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When you have a world wide trend of repeated 'single disgraceful acts of violence' all linked by a common theme (in this case Islamic extremisim) then it becomes more than just isolated incidents doesn't it?- without looking at the link between them how are you supposed to tackle the problem?? Call it whatever you want but there's clearly a a group of people, world wide, who groom and train others to hate and then attack western society - putting aside the religious context for a second - how can you not say that that is terrorisim?


Im not even going to open the Bush and Blair can of worms mate :D
 
Jumpers said:
Really annoys me how the definition of terrorism has changed over time. Terrorism is simply the violent act of an organisation or individual against a country due to political motives.

If a former employee(s) wages a bombing campaign against his former employer, that is not terrorism even if the campaign is waged over multiple sites or even countries.
If one religious faction decides to start killing members of another religious faction that is not terrorism (unless the campaign is being waged against a country governed by a Theocratic ruling organisation or individual).

Crimes committed against a minority in a country is not terrorism either, even if politically motived. That is persecution, which is a different thing all together.

So with regards to the current affairs? The UK is not a Muslim country (and despite the Church of England, we are not a Theocratic country and therefore you can replace Muslim with any religion in this context), although Muslims live in it. Crimes against the country, or individuals, committed by Muslims due to political motivations IS terrorism. Crimes against Muslims in this country committed by anti-Muslim individuals or organisations is NOT terrorism, but is persecution.
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Number one, you have done what most Daily Mail readers do and failed to differentiate between the millions of peaceful muslims and and the extremist muslim factions. having established that we are talking about extremist muslims, I'd be really interested to know how you could define that filthy attack/murder as being a crime committed with 'political motivations'...what 'political motivations' were served by that crime? And by your own post which now sits just above this, this was a brutal murder. I could go on, but...
 
billyiddo said:
When you have a world wide trend of repeated 'single disgraceful acts of violence' all linked by a common theme (in this case Islamic extremisim) then it becomes more than just isolated incidents doesn't it?- without looking at the link between them how are you supposed to tackle the problem?? Call it whatever you want but there's clearly a a group of people, world wide, who groom and train others to hate and then attack western society - putting aside the religious context for a second - how can you not say that that is terrorisim?


Im not even going to open the Bush and Blair can of worms mate :D
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Thing is Billy, if you look around, the same could be said the other way. Every single day, innocent civilians die due to raids, misplaced attacks, now drone attacks...you know, 'oops, was that a wedding party we just destroyed, oh sorry, our bad!'

I have no argument with the notion that extremist hate groups who wage war on the west are terrorists. What I find absolutely fascinating, is how the same is never said in the other direction simply because governments sanction the drones, the invasions and the casualties in the other direction.

Tackling the problem is actually rather simple. In every hot-spot where you see potential conversion (Somalia) support the poor with some sort of infrastructure which gives them something to lose! Don't destroy what little they have left/leave it to rot, and then watch these extremist nutters go in, offer 'support', food, shelter and immortality for a good cause. To fully understand where all this fudging mess started you'd have to go back decades and decades, but even looking back short-term, our failure to follow through on supporting Afghanistan back in 1980 (the time when Bin Laden and the Taliban was create by the Pakistani Secret Service under the guidance of the CIA) cost us big in a few different ways (err, creating the Taliban!)...we had a chance to stabilize a volatile region and offer support/something worth defending. Instead we got out and didn't go back. Chaos. And vulnerability...

I'm going to stop as I fear I'm tangenting slighty!
;)
 
thfcsteff said:
Number one, you have done what most Daily Mail readers do and failed to differentiate between the millions of peaceful muslims and and the extremist muslim factions. having established that we are talking about extremist muslims, I'd be really interested to know how you could define that filthy attack/murder as being a crime committed with 'political motivations'...what 'political motivations' were served by that crime? And by your own post which now sits just above this, this was a brutal murder. I could go on, but...
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Erm, number one you have completely misconstrued my post and the point of my post. Read it again and see I am arguing against the definition of terrorism and nothing more than that. I can't be bothered to get into a more serious debate with you simply because you're an administrator. Really surprised to see an Administrator on a forum can wade in with such a judgemental insulting post to be honest. Really not cool.
 
Jumpers said:
Erm, number one you have completely misconstrued my post and the point of my post. Read it again and see I am arguing against the definition of terrorism and nothing more than that. I can't be bothered to get into a more serious debate with you simply because you're an administrator. Really surprised to see an Administrator on a forum can wade in with such a judgemental insulting post to be honest. Really not cool.
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Ha ha, marvelous.
Perhaps you should do a better job of making your point then.

As for your frankly ludicrous comment, number 1, the reason you 'can't be bothered' is because you know you'll actually be involved in a proper debate and won't be able to ride rough-shod over 'opinions' like some white knight in shining armor, and secondly, if you genuinely feel insulted (by what I cannot fathom, the fact I suggested your assertion had a Mail-esque quality to it?) then absolutely feel free to post a complaint to other administrators here. If they feel your grievance has grounds, don't worry, I will be served.

Finally, the last paragraph of your post read like a personal statement. If you did not intend it to do so, then I would suggest a rephrase. Otherwise, would you care to answer my initial question?
 
I would like to apologise to the forum for the reactionary nature of my posts in the immediate aftermath of this rancid act.

I have reflected long and hard on my extreme reaction to these poisonous events. I sucked in the toxicity and vomited it out.

I am not a recruiting sargeant for any organisation that preaches intolerance or hatred,, and I would like to take this opportunity to affirm I do not support any agenda for violence nor hatred.

I am now settling my personal account, I am sorry. I would also like to add this could not ever be termed with race, it was a reaction to religious hatred.

Forgive me friends.
 
johnola said:
I would like to apologise to the forum for the reactionary nature of my posts in the immediate aftermath of this rancid act.

I have reflected long and hard on my extreme reaction to these poisonous events. I sucked in the toxicity and vomited it out.

I am not a recruiting sargeant for any organisation that preaches intolerance or hatred,, and I would like to take this opportunity to affirm I do not support any agenda for violence nor hatred.

I am now settling my personal account, I am sorry. I would also like to add this could not ever be termed with race, it was a reaction to religious hatred.

Forgive me friends.
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Fair play mate. It takes a lot of balls to do this. Emotions were running high all round during the start of this thread. Good to see you posting again.
 
I would like to reaffirm that i blame labour and liberal minded people for this act of terror through their support of the extremist who sprout hatred on the streets on london and who hide behind the human right acts so we can not deport them, an human rights act loved by the left. I realise that the two nutters behind this crime were british born but they were inspired by people we can not kick out because of the lefties in this country.

I reiterate my absolute hatred of all left wing people and what they did to this country and how they put myself and more importantly my son at risk, for when we are out in London on a day out we can be targeted by terriosts through a bomb when in a public place. The left have therefore put my and my sons life at risk(not to bothered about the wifes life to be honest). For that all my hatred for now and ever more will be aimed at the destruction of the nasty vile left wing communists we have in this country their total destruction is now my soul purpose in life.

Now time for some salad and some fresh air.
 
johnola said:
I would like to apologise to the forum for the reactionary nature of my posts in the immediate aftermath of this rancid act.

I have reflected long and hard on my extreme reaction to these poisonous events. I sucked in the toxicity and vomited it out.

I am not a recruiting sargeant for any organisation that preaches intolerance or hatred,, and I would like to take this opportunity to affirm I do not support any agenda for violence nor hatred.

I am now settling my personal account, I am sorry. I would also like to add this could not ever be termed with race, it was a reaction to religious hatred.

Forgive me friends.
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=D> =D>
 
japenesegardenlover said:
I would like to reaffirm that i blame labour and liberal minded people for this act of terror through their support of the extremist who sprout hatred on the streets on london and who hide behind the human right acts so we can not deport them, an human rights act loved by the left. I realise that the two nutters behind this crime were british born but they were inspired by people we can not kick out because of the lefties in this country.

I reiterate my absolute hatred of all left wing people and what they did to this country and how they put myself and more importantly my son at risk, for when we are out in London on a day out we can be targeted by terriosts through a bomb when in a public place. The left have therefore put my and my sons life at risk(not to bothered about the wifes life to be honest). For that all my hatred for now and ever more will be aimed at the destruction of the nasty vile left wing communists we have in this country their total destruction is now my soul purpose in life.

Now time for some salad and some fresh air.
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Go for a bike ride mate.
 
raboner said:
chich seriously, just fudging stop it... it's so boring now.
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I have reported this post as abusive in nature. The was no need for the swearing i will leave this in the hands of the mods but felt i should tell you first. If my posts offend you then you should take the appropiate action and inform the mods if i have fallen foul of any of there rules.
 
japenesegardenlover said:
I have reported this post as abusive in nature. The was no need for the swearing i will leave this in the hands of the mods but felt i should tell you first. If my posts offend you then you should take the appropiate action and inform the mods if i have fallen foul of any of there rules.
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You have a problem with somone calling you boring, but have no problem with stating that Labour and Liberal voters have blood on their hands regarding this atrocity. Seems you have lofty standards for yourself and very low ones for some others. Most perplexing...but then again, probably not.
 
johnola said:
I would like to apologise to the forum for the reactionary nature of my posts in the immediate aftermath of this rancid act.

I have reflected long and hard on my extreme reaction to these poisonous events. I sucked in the toxicity and vomited it out.

I am not a recruiting sargeant for any organisation that preaches intolerance or hatred,, and I would like to take this opportunity to affirm I do not support any agenda for violence nor hatred.

I am now settling my personal account, I am sorry. I would also like to add this could not ever be termed with race, it was a reaction to religious hatred.

Forgive me friends.
Click to expand...

Top TOP post!
=D>
 
japenesegardenlover said:
I would like to reaffirm that i blame labour and liberal minded people for this act of terror through their support of the extremist who sprout hatred on the streets on london and who hide behind the human right acts so we can not deport them, an human rights act loved by the left. I realise that the two nutters behind this crime were british born but they were inspired by people we can not kick out because of the lefties in this country.

I reiterate my absolute hatred of all left wing people and what they did to this country and how they put myself and more importantly my son at risk, for when we are out in London on a day out we can be targeted by terriosts through a bomb when in a public place. The left have therefore put my and my sons life at risk(not to bothered about the wifes life to be honest). For that all my hatred for now and ever more will be aimed at the destruction of the nasty vile left wing communists we have in this country their total destruction is now my soul purpose in life.

Now time for some salad and some fresh air.
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What a load of gonad*s!

Feel free to report me if you want Chich, but equally, take it in the spirit of tone that you have taken this debate to matey. Seriously, think about that sentence in bold-face. How do you explain the Thatcher years, when her insistence on absolutely ignoring the IRA publicly lead to a bombing culture which was far more dangerous to the British public/ Please! Sort it out! This is about EXTREMISM across the board, and the conditions which allow extremists to survive and prosper. If we starved extremists of their recruitment foot-soldiers, then there would be no issues.

As for the last bit, good GHod man, get a grip! Jokes aside, and sarcasm added to your words for filter, IF you carry this as a mantra of any degree you need to seriously seek out help mate. Your anger is misdirected in such an enormous way that you are handing extremists everywhere a huge victory!

I say this to you as someone who has always enjoyed your posts and your (sometimes on the edge) humour...take it as concern not dislike. Seriously. Good luck...
 
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