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Sick sick world what is wrong with people

Yesterday, whilst waiting in the queue at Waitrose in Kings Cross the till assistant at the far end shouted "Is anybody in a hurry to get a train 'cos I can help!" and the guy in front of me took the hint and stepped forward. But not before the cvnt behind me shouts out "Yeah my mate's in a hurry to get to London Bridge!". To be fair to one of the guys with him did say "Not cool mate! Not cool!" to which I added "Yeah, not cool! Have a fvcking word with yourself!"

The thing that got me was as I turned around expecting to be confronted by some oik in a hoody, I was faced by a suited and booted bloke in his mid 30s. Unbelievable!

Anyway now we know that the victims were two young kids with there whole lives ahead of them (one of whom was at the same Uni as my daughter and graduated with her boyfriend), who were trying to help the very person that killed them, I hope he feels really proud of himself. TVVAT!
 
glasgowspur said:
Your opinion and your entitled to it, as am I, but I can do withoutthe 'missed the point and you're too stupid or bigoted to waste my time explaining it" thank you very much.
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That's nice for you, doesn't mean it isn't needed or appropriate. Try doing some research. There is such a think as thinking before speaking. You did show ignorance - so no issue in pointing that out.
You also stated "If they know its wrong and want to stop it what help do they need?" - it was clearly stated what help was both needed and requested and the reasons why it wasn't supplied.
You don't get to hide behind "it's my opinion", when the information has been supplied to you and basic research can show the huge MoJ budget cuts under the Tories. Appx 40% since 2010.
 
monkeybarry said:
That's nice for you, doesn't mean it isn't needed or appropriate. Try doing some research. There is such a think as thinking before speaking. You did show ignorance - so no issue in pointing that out.
You also stated "If they know its wrong and want to stop it what help do they need?" - it was clearly stated what help was both needed and requested and the reasons why it wasn't supplied.
You don't get to hide behind "it's my opinion", when the information has been supplied to you and basic research can show the huge MoJ budget cuts under the Tories. Appx 40% since 2010.
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It's nothing to do with MoJ or anything else.
He claims he wants to de redicalise, what help does he need with that?
None. He made choices and decisions he has said those choices were wrong.
Did he have mental health issues?
Was he addicted to substances?
So if not what help does need?
If he has decided that the choices and decisions he has made in the past are wrong and he is prepared to turn over a new leaf and become a proper member of society then that is good and he should be welcomed back into society. He has after all taken the punishment.
Chances are he lied about turning over a new leaf, played the system and the has now murdered two innocent people.
 
monkeybarry said:
That's nice for you, doesn't mean it isn't needed or appropriate. Try doing some research. There is such a think as thinking before speaking. You did show ignorance - so no issue in pointing that out.
You also stated "If they know its wrong and want to stop it what help do they need?" - it was clearly stated what help was both needed and requested and the reasons why it wasn't supplied.
You don't get to hide behind "it's my opinion", when the information has been supplied to you and basic research can show the huge MoJ budget cuts under the Tories. Appx 40% since 2010.
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I feel like I have to interject here around the budget cuts. They have mainly been on the asset and estates side in reducing the amount if buildings and in particular courts so that their more relevant for the modern world. Lots of older buildings that were purely a crown court are now a larger combined court meaning other buildings aren’t used and are therefore not needed. It’s a sensible option to save money. I know as I’ve been involved in it for 3 1/2 years
Similarly their has been very little money invested in the prisons out there due to cut backs but their is a counter argument that the money should be spent elsewhere anyway (wrong IMO but thats another conversation)
 
monkeybarry said:
Well it's clearly a manipulation of thoughts, like any kind of grooming is. Your post smacks of ignorance and preconceived notions, so I suspect there is little point in trying to explain it.
But in your self righteous bluster you have skipped over the key point - he asked for help to be de-radicalised with the assistance of a de-radicalising professional.
He was told there was no money for this under a system defunded by the Tories.
You state help should have been made available for a mental health issue - I clearly stated help was sought; help was denied.
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I’ve worked on prisons and also for secure services. It’s the first time I’ve ever heard of someone asking to be “de radicalised” but I’m not an expert. What I can say is that prisoners change their tune and their angles for a laugh, for better meals, for a change or for anything as suits their need for amusement. I’ve seen it first hand many times.
Men who identify a female are entitled to feminine hygiene products. Then the become Vegan so want vegan versions.. then they become Jewish so want different food. It goes on and on

from what I’ve seen of the Muslim side in prison they keep themselves it themselves in their own organised way so it’s hard to break down exactly what is going on in reality.
 
I always agreed with Howard when he wanted to build more prisons. Lock em for life and let it mean life. Not talking about people who dont pay council tax but the nutters the ones taking knifes out on the streets or the terrorists. I include far right extremism which is apparently on the rise, lock up all the fcukwits away from the rest of us.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
I feel like I have to interject here around the budget cuts. They have mainly been on the asset and estates side in reducing the amount if buildings and in particular courts so that their more relevant for the modern world. Lots of older buildings that were purely a crown court are now a larger combined court meaning other buildings aren’t used and are therefore not needed. It’s a sensible option to save money. I know as I’ve been involved in it for 3 1/2 years
Similarly their has been very little money invested in the prisons out there due to cut backs but their is a counter argument that the money should be spent elsewhere anyway (wrong IMO but thats another conversation)
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I also work in the sector.
There has also been large cuts to the availablity of rehabilitation services, squeeze on staffing and constraint on system innovation above minimum value product.
Some of the capital spending reduction you mention is efficiency, but so many of our prisons are outdated and have squalid conditions and need investment.(Although Berwyn seems to have some question marks over it too). But if the argument for spending elsewhere to ensure offenders are "society ready", then the an adequate level of funding needs producing for the courses to get them there. This isn't happening.

Re; programs for de-radicalising - there are options.
It does raise a question about whether the intervention of Parole needs a wider scope. He was clearly on a serious sentence, just not serious for Parole as a release requirement.
 
monkeybarry said:
I also work in the sector.
There has also been large cuts to the availablity of rehabilitation services, squeeze on staffing and constraint on system innovation above minimum value product.
Some of the capital spending reduction you mention is efficiency, but so many of our prisons are outdated and have squalid conditions and need investment.(Although Berwyn seems to have some question marks over it too). But if the argument for spending elsewhere to ensure offenders are "society ready", then the an adequate level of funding needs producing for the courses to get them there. This isn't happening.

Re; programs for de-radicalising - there are options.
It does raise a question about whether the intervention of Parole needs a wider scope. He was clearly on a serious sentence, just not serious for Parole as a release requirement.
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Every prison I’ve been too is outdated other than oak wood which was a new build and IMO more up to date than any government building I’ve ever been too. Petit France is like a museum in comparison

the cut backs on “services for prisoners” have had massive effect on the rehabilitation side and has lead IMO to actually more damage in the prisons through riots and general abuse

the other issues I’ve seen a bit of is spice and other ex legal highs. Their impact is huge

im now working on defence contracts and that’s a whole different league of politics and process
 
scaramanga said:
:D

You have to go back 30 years to attempt some form of equivalence? Even then your attempts fail.

Making use of terrorists against a common enemy to defend our own lands is not the same as being friends with terrorists that attempt to kill our own people or our allies as Corbyn is.
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You are so full of self serving brick it isn't funny. Thatcher brought that murderous fascist here to recover from illness. No empathy for the thousands of his people who were brutally murdered, some thrown over the ocean from planes. What does Ardiles think of this monster do you think? Yeah it fails, you mean it fails with you.
 
markysimmo said:
I see lots of your lot making out it was morally wrong to kill the attacker on the bridge
What a shock
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I see more of your 'lot' distorting what happened in order to gain a political advantages, dog whistling to the fascist element. You must be so proud of that? My grandfather spent five years shooting them, your 'lot' spend their time courting them
 
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Glenda's Legs said:
Ideally yes. But we have to find a way to deal with the realities of what people are rather than what we think they should be.
If his beliefs can be taken down a notch or two to ‘relatively benign’ rather than ‘radical and dangerous’ then I’d rather that than the alternative.
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I think the only way that can work is the "buffet approach" to religion that is so often used in CofE types. They don't have the mental fortitude to completely logic GHod out of their lives, but they never go to church and interpret all of the bible and its many disgusting opinions as "try to be nice to people".

It's obviously a complete misreading of an utterly hateful text made up entirely to stop them being scared that there is no/a bad afterlife. But I'll settle for that over stabbing and bombing people. If you haven't read/listened to Sam Harris, he does a very good job of explaining just how far Islam has to go just to get to that stage. There's a lot of work to be done, but if a few million people can begin to interpret "kill/convert anyone who isn't one of us" as "try to be nice to everyone, even the gays and the Jews" then we're probably onto a winner.
 
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Gilzeantoscore said:
You are so full of self serving brick it isn't funny. Thatcher bought that murderous fascist here to recover from illness. No empathy for the thousands of his people who were brutally murdered, some thrown over the ocean from planes. What does Ardiles think of this monster do you think? Yeah it fails, you mean it fails with you.
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I'm not defending what Pinochet did, but I live in the real world where sometimes we need to work with enemies of our enemies. To not have done so would have threatened the lives of our people living in our territory. The lack of air cover would also have left our military completely exposed to a hostile invasion force.

What he did to his own people isn't right, but using him to help us defend our people is very, very different to befriending those who tried to blow up our own country or those who wish to slaughter millions of innocent Jews.
 
Sadly, an event like this was all too foreseeable while we have a justice system that hands down such pathetically inadequate sentences (or, probably more to the point, terms of sentence) to those guilty of such serious offences. So sad, but so avoidable.
 
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