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Safe Standing at Football Matches

Discussion in 'General Football' started by Jurgen the German, 26 Oct 2012.

  1. Grays_1890

    Grays_1890 Frederic Kanoute

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    Standing in games in safe numbers is a no brainer 100%, just don't allow more numbers in that allowed and it is as simple as that>

    Hillsborough dreadful but people did not die due to standing
     
  2. LemonadeMoney

    LemonadeMoney Jimmy McCormick

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    AFL scopes out English football's first safe standing scheme
    Shrewsbury Town’s New Meadow stadium to install 500-capacity rail seating section


    The first safe standing area in an English football ground is set to open next season, after AFL Architects advised Shrewsbury Town FC on the feasibility of a section at the club’s New Meadow stadium.

    The 500-capacity scheme will use the same ‘rail seating’ which was fitted at Celtic Park in Glasgow, home of Scottish champions Glasgow Celtic, last summer. Rail seats are attached to barriers and can tip up allowing spectators to stand without the threat of crowd crushes.

    The League One side applied to the Sports Ground Safety Authority (SGSA) for permission to install the rail seats, following consultation with AFL, and hopes to have the section open for use during the 2017/18 season.

    “Shrewsbury approached us to provide technical guidance, given our experience as stadium architects,” said John Roberts, sports director at AFL. “We advised on the best location for the rail seating, to ensure other spectator sight lines are not blocked, and ensured that the size of the stairways, vomitories, toilets and concourse areas conformed to stadium regulations.

    “They also needed to demonstrate how they would manage the crowd and control access to the area, which were issues Celtic experienced last season.”



    [​IMG]
    Safe standing areas like this at Bundesliga club Hannover are used widely in Germany


    The safe standing area will be located at the back of the New Meadow’s south stand and will replace existing seating although the capacity of the stand is likely to remain the same. Shrewsbury said it hopes the section will “improve the atmosphere in the stadium and provide a safer area for those supporters who wish to stand”.

    The club estimates the cost of installing the rail seating will be £75,000, which it intends to raise through crowd funding.

    “The project will cost Shrewsbury money in terms of installation and management, but they see it as a better way of managing fans’ safety, while also improving the experience,” said Roberts.

    Shrewsbury’s application will be reviewed by the SGSA, which regulates safety through local authorities at the 94 Premier and Football League grounds in England and Wales,

    Standing sections were banned in English football’s top two tiers following the 1989 Hillsborough disaster. However, a process agreed between the Football League and SGSA this spring allows 29 lower division grounds not covered by the all-seater legislation to apply for permission to install rail seating.

    The SGSA has also confirmed that the next edition of its Green Guide for spectator safety at sports grounds, due out in early 2018, will include a section on rail seating.

    Shrewsbury, which has a capacity of 9,875, said it hoped the application process will “be a matter of weeks, not months”.

    A growing number of clubs have expressed interest in installing safe standing areas. At Championship club Brentford, AFL is designing the new stadium so that a section can be easily converted to safe standing. Premier Leage clubs Tottenham and Chelsea, whose new stadia having been designed by Populous and Herzog & de Meuron respectively, are making similar provisions in their new grounds.

    Safe standing are used widely across Germany’s top division, the Bundesliga, with eight clubs, including Borussia Dortmund and Bayer Leverkusen, out of 18 having them.

    http://www.bdonline.co.uk/5088553.article?origin=BDdaily
     
  3. Rorschach

    Rorschach Tony Galvin

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    vomitories? LOL.
     
  4. Jordinho

    Jordinho Taffy O'Callaghan Staff Member

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    Liverpool fans are to vote on the introduction of rail seating in football stadiums following a constructive and at times emotive meeting on safe standing. As Damian Kavanagh, one of roughly 100 people who attended the two and a half hour discussion, put it: “This is uniquely complicated for us. We should be full, front and centre of the debate because we lived with Hillsborough.”

    “We felt if we didn’t have the conversation it would happen around us,” explained Jay McKenna, chair of SOS. “That could be upsetting and damaging for some.”

    Sara Williams, daughter of the late and relentless Hillsborough campaigner Anne Williams, who lost her son Kevin in 1989, said: “My mum always felt safe standing should be allowed at football matches and so do I. We have known the truth about Hillsborough for years and years and now the whole world does. It was not standing itself which killed our Kev and 95 angels with him, it was a catalogue of serious failings by police, the ambulance service, the Football Association and many others.

    “The rail seating already being used safely and successfully in Germany and elsewhere is completely different from the caged pens of 1989 in virtually every single way. I’d be happy to take my kids in there, in fact I think they would love it.”

    An opposing view was read out from Sue Roberts. She stated: “My brother, Graham, was one of the 96 unlawfully killed in the crushing in the pens at Hillsborough on 15th April 1989. The cause of death was given as compression asphyxia. We all know there were many factors that contributed to the deaths of our loved ones, but had Graham been seated instead of standing this could not have happened. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, I think any form of standing is a step in the wrong direction.”

    The most powerful address at the Liner Hotel came from Becky Shah, whose mother, Inger Shah, was unlawfully killed at Hillsborough. “I would like to see it reintroduced because I would like to reclaim the game for all of those people who went to the game in the 50s, the 60s, the 80s and have been priced out of the game they love, including myself,” she said. “The irony is I’ve been priced out of the game I love as a consequence of my mother’s death. I would like to see the working class game returned into the hands of the working classes and safe standing is a mechanism to do it. We are already standing on the Kop and at away games. It’s now time to make it safe.”
     
  5. scaramanga

    scaramanga Ricky Villa Staff Member

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    fudging tard.

    If her brother had been seated he'd have been trampled.

    I see "unlawfully killed" is the new Scouse buzzword. It's very clever, it puts the victim claim right in there front and centre every time they use it. They obviously wore out the word victim itself.
     
  6. glasgowspur

    glasgowspur Paul Robinson

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    No links to Celtic closing their safe standing area for two games, it's not the way supporters are accomdated, it's supporters themselves that are the problem.
    Standing in this country has yet to rid itself of the idiots that it attracts, they are the problem, not the standing.
     
  7. 7percent

    7percent Pascal Chimbonda

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    I had to google that. Looks like Celtic fans in the safe standing section smuggled in flares and otherwise caused a nuisance.

    I'd say that that's not necessarily the fault of safe standing but a silver lining is that safe standing gives the club an opportunity to 'punish' the fans. i.e. you can't play nice, we'll take away your safe standing for a bit.
     
  8. Baleforce

    Baleforce Micky Hazard

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    ftfy ;)
     
  9. spitshine

    spitshine Sebastien Bassong

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    I think this was the first game in question followed by incidents v Linfield.
     
  10. LemonadeMoney

    LemonadeMoney Jimmy McCormick

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    What has safe standing at other grounds got to do with Liverpool? They don't have to have it, and no ones going to make them in away sections.
     
  11. scaramanga

    scaramanga Ricky Villa Staff Member

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    Because when it's proven safe, the list of things they're victims of gets one shorter
     
  12. Jordinho

    Jordinho Taffy O'Callaghan Staff Member

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    If they were truly serious about not letting anyone stand they should start with the kop.
     
  13. Whiffler

    Whiffler Dean Austin

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    Have they or anyone else been fined for standing fans?
     
  14. Rorschach

    Rorschach Tony Galvin

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    Did the spammers get hit ?
     
  15. Baleforce

    Baleforce Micky Hazard

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    Yes, by fellow hammers, the club were not punished though.
     
  16. Glenda's Legs

    Glenda's Legs Pedro Mendes

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    It's the ridiculousness of the situation that irks me. Everyone knows that at each PL ground (and no doubt the same for each Championship ground) there is standing at every game. At the very least it will be a section of the away fans. But there's usually a section of home fans as well. At WHL it was the whole PL lower and two blocks of the shelf. So not an insignificant amount.
    But no club can say "well, we already have standing anyway so let's make it formal and safe" because they'd be admitting they are breaching regulations (in fact, breaking the law), even though it is commonplace. So everyone has to pretend in official debate on the topic that it doesn't happen now and therefore there's no existing need to change the law.

    In the THST recent survey they had a section of questions on safe standing. First asking if you'd be in favour of an area of NWHL having safe standing, if permitted by law. Then a follow up question to the effect that if this was permitted but it meant sitting was strictly enforced in every other area of the ground would you be happy with this. I have to admit it did make me pause for thought. You could end up with less standing overall.
    One of the things I am going to find strange next season, being in the upper tier at Wembley, is having to watch football sitting down for a whole season. I think I' might forego my seat for cup games and see if I can buy a return in the lower west side tier.

    I read an article on safe standing that mooted how it could be introduced without an actual change in law having to be voted through parliament. Apparently there is a school of thought that the Secretary of State for Sport could decree that rail seating falls within a broad definition of 'seating' and in this case it would not have to find a slot on the parliamentary timetable
    The problem is, at the risk of making a very sweeping statement, the powers that be will have no real interest in what football fans might want
     
  17. Jordinho

    Jordinho Taffy O'Callaghan Staff Member

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  18. Jordinho

    Jordinho Taffy O'Callaghan Staff Member

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    Almost 18,000 supporters – an unprecedented number in football supporter surveys of this type – took part in our dialogue and gave their views on rail seating. Spirit Of Shankly would like to thank all those who participated so that supporters could make an informed decision.

    We would like to thank in particular the Hillsborough Family Support Group, Hillsborough Justice Campaign, and all the survivors and families of those at Hillsborough. Many shared personal experiences, something a number of them have done rarely since 1989. We are humbled that they felt able to do so with us, and we thank them sincerely for informing this debate. We do and always will retain the utmost respect for their views.

    Spirit of Shankly’s future policy and position follows a sensitive, sensible, honest and mature conversation, throughout which key themes emerged: a choice for supporters between sitting and standing; safety for those who currently stand at games; and the safety of any future standing model. Contributions from our panel, including representatives from the Sports Ground Safety Authority and Celtic FC, expertly addressed these matters.

    Such a turnout and overwhelming majority in favour of rail seating cannot be ignored. It was always our intention to ensure all supporters had an opportunity to contribute, listen to differing views and then decide. This has now happened.

    We realise the significance of this vote both locally and in the wider debate nationally. From when discussions of rail seating first began, Liverpool supporters and Hillsborough have been referenced both as a reason not to do it, or as a possible turning point that would allow its introduction.

    Now, our views are known and we urge everyone to digest and understand the sensitivities and detail behind the outcome.

    Our voice and views should not be misused, misrepresented or misappropriated by anyone. We will not allow that.

    No one has ‘won’. There are no winners or losers. There may be disagreement with views on either side, but we gave everyone an opportunity to have their say and ask their questions. To those who cannot understand this, we urge them to consider the experiences and heartache that many have felt and experienced during this time.

    We would encourage those campaigning for the introduction of rail-seating areas to ensure that all views are heard and to ensure the questions and concerns of those opposed are addressed. To this end we offer an open invitation for any campaign or group to engage with us regarding these results so that they are interpreted in a full and proper manner.

    We emphasise that this remains the first step for Liverpool supporters, not the conclusion. The outcome of this is not a call for rail seating to be introduced at Anfield. We will have further consultation with families, survivors, members, supporters and LFC in due course but for now, we will take time to digest the result and reflect on what it means.

    http://www.spiritofshankly.com/news/rail-seating-vote-result
     
  19. scaramanga

    scaramanga Ricky Villa Staff Member

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    That's a very polite "Thanks but no thanks".
     
  20. Gazza

    Gazza Vedran Corluka

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    If they are against it then let pool not have safe standing ... they are not the authority due to a genuine tragedy.
     

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