Racism in football

[LutonSpurs]

After Covid, the worst thing in 2020 has been tin pot racists learning the term virtue signaling and misusing it to death.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

There is a time for it to stop, and that time
is when society no longer treats people differently based on the colour of their skin.l.

What parts of society treat people differently because of their skin colour?

My work place does not and cant think of any companies that do. Certainly not large companies, the might be the odd small business owner who is racist, I imagine the is in the small business community.

The NHS does treat people differently, I have been in the private and public health systems I see no racism there.

Education my son is at private school and they literally only care about the money being paid. We have friends and family and I see no racism in the public health care system. I believe it is now white boys who are the worst at exam results. Which is why I had so many arguments with my wife that he was going private whether she liked it or not.

Arts and culture, I see no racism there either. The excellent national theatre which is about the best thing about this country go to great lengths in their diversity programme.

Sport, the does seem an oddly small number of black coaches. I put this down to the attitude of old white owners which I hope would go over the next few years. I would back a Rooney rule though so more get interviewed.

Policing is the one area where I would agree the are some issues. I was shocked by the high percentage of black deaths in police custody compared to white deaths. For the sake of a harmonious country and to weed out any racist police officers I would have a public investigation after every black or Asian death in police custody.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

After Covid, the worst thing in 2020 has been tin pot racists learning the term virtue signaling and misusing it to death.

I agree some are misusing it. But a lot of people without racist beliefs have been called racist for the last 4 years and we all know who started that.

The best way I can try to convey how I think racism is in this country is to point you to the elections in Manchester when Tommy Robinson was standing. He got a tiny amount a few thousand where as the Brexit party took thousands. If people were as racist as the liberals and the far left make out then he would have cleaned up.

Also Farage has stood 3 times for parliament in strong brexit supporting areas and still not close to getting in. So while people liked his campaign to leave they decided to go for mainstream parties.

This tells me of a country with far less racists then comparable countries. Yet we have had 4 years of being called racist, which might be why some on the far right dont pay any attention to being called racist because it has now been devalued as a term in their eyes.

As @milo says about some calling virtue signalling to shut down a debate, I think some could say the liberals and the far left have been doing that for years on some issues they font want discussed. Shout that someone is racist and the debate is brick down straight away.

 

[LutonSpurs]

What parts of society treat people differently because of their skin colour?

My work place does not and cant think of any companies that do. Certainly not large companies, the might be the odd small business owner who is racist, I imagine the is in the small business community.

The NHS does treat people differently, I have been in the private and public health systems I see no racism there.

Education my son is at private school and they non-figuratively only care about the money being paid. We have friends and family and I see no racism in the public health care system. I believe it is now white boys who are the worst at exam results. Which is why I had so many arguments with my wife that he was going private whether she liked it or not.

Arts and culture, I see no racism there either. The excellent national theatre which is about the best thing about this country go to great lengths in their diversity programme.

Sport, the does seem an oddly small number of black coaches. I put this down to the attitude of old white owners which I hope would go over the next few years. I would back a Rooney rule though so more get interviewed.

Policing is the one area where I would agree the are some issues. I was shocked by the high percentage of black deaths in police custody compared to white deaths. For the sake of a harmonious country and to weed out any racist police officers I would have a public investigation after every black or Asian death in police custody.

I'm glad you don't see much racism Chich.

 

[Legohamster]

The fines thing is a UEFA issue. They are pathetic and agreed they need to be looked at.


I don’t think the racists do win. Millwall have been roundly derided today and the clubs reputation again being dragged through the gutter. All things come to an End at some point. How long does taking the knee continue for ? The longer it carry’s on the more the message starts to wear off. People get used to it and it no longer holds the same weight and power it did at the start.

I personally think the knee should stop as it is as you say losing impact.

they would be better off doing what stonewall/Kick it out do and have weekends of promotion.

I see some people are calling for Millwall to be docked points/fined, that is a slippery slope to go down.

I’m not sure you can do that for booing.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

I'm glad you don't see much racism Chich.

If someone is racist to you, report it to the police. If you get no joy from them, go to your MP or one of the many anti racism charities and organisations out there.

The was a young girl talking on the radio the other day saying she still got what she felt were dirty looks when walking down the street that she put down to racism. I dont know if she had those stupid tattoos on the thighs that so many girls have or if she was playing loud noise that some consider music but I do not, if she was/had she would have deserved the dirty looks.

I get dirty looks from white people from all people. Kids who give dirty looks and roll their eyes when they see more cool trainers.

Angry fat middle aged men who maybe envious that I drive a nice car, often get dirty looks when I step put the car.

Can get a dirty look from someone walking down the street because their stressed and unhappy with their own life. When I was first diagnosed with Parkinson's I had a permanent angry face. If you had passed me you would have thought I was out for blood.

If you have experienced proper racism and I'm sure you sadly have. Report it to the appropriate authorities.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

I personally think the knee should stop as it is as you say losing impact.

they would be better off doing what stonewall/Kick it out do and have weekends of promotion.

I see some people are calling for Millwall to be docked points/fined, that is a slippery slope to go down.

I’m not sure you can do that for booing.

The reaction against Millwall has been extreme and I can only see it causing more problems.

Again it sounds like I'm defending them and I'm not, they Cardiff west ham and Leeds are notorious for it. They are scum. But for me booing will never be racist, if Campbell ever manages a team against us in say a cup match. He will claim that booing is racist. Monkey chants, bad words, stupid songs yes. But not booing.

 

[nayenezgani]

If someone is racist to you, report it to the police. If you get no joy from them, go to your MP or one of the many anti racism charities and organisations out there.

The was a young girl talking on the radio the other day saying she still got what she felt were dirty looks when walking down the street that she put down to racism. I dont know if she had those stupid tattoos on the thighs that so many girls have or if she was playing loud noise that some consider music but I do not, if she was/had she would have deserved the dirty looks.

I get dirty looks from white people from all people. Kids who give dirty looks and roll their eyes when they see more cool trainers.

Angry fat middle aged men who maybe envious that I drive a nice car, often get dirty looks when I step put the car.

Can get a dirty look from someone walking down the street because their stressed and unhappy with their own life. When I was first diagnosed with Parkinson's I had a permanent angry face. If you had passed me you would have thought I was out for blood.

If you have experienced proper racism and I'm sure you sadly have. Report it to the appropriate authorities.

You are the actual definition of white privilege. Your last few posts couldn't be more ignorant if you tried.

 

[LutonSpurs]

If someone is racist to you, report it to the police. If you get no joy from them, go to your MP or one of the many anti racism charities and organisations out there.

The was a young girl talking on the radio the other day saying she still got what she felt were dirty looks when walking down the street that she put down to racism. I dont know if she had those stupid tattoos on the thighs that so many girls have or if she was playing loud noise that some consider music but I do not, if she was/had she would have deserved the dirty looks.

I get dirty looks from white people from all people. Kids who give dirty looks and roll their eyes when they see more cool trainers.

Angry fat middle aged men who maybe envious that I drive a nice car, often get dirty looks when I step put the car.

Can get a dirty look from someone walking down the street because their stressed and unhappy with their own life. When I was first diagnosed with Parkinson's I had a permanent angry face. If you had passed me you would have thought I was out for blood.

If you have experienced proper racism and I'm sure you sadly have. Report it to the appropriate authorities.

I know how to deal with racism Chich mate. But thanks for the tips. Your clearly understand what it's like to racially abused more than I do so I should listen to you.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

You are the actual definition of white privilege. Your last few posts couldn't be more ignorant if you tried.

White privilege? Growing up on a council estate in north London leaving school at 15 to be a labourer. Saving up to buy a locksmith franchise, working 7 days a week travelling all over then selling up. That's privilege is it?

I speak with a common ray winstone accent. I had the looks when I went into the banks or saw my accountant, the sneering snide looks because of my accent. When I brought a nice car through money I earned I saw the quick glances the salesman did to each other. I'm not a drug dealer or a bank robber but I saw them profiling me because of my accent.

It is not the reserve of black and Asian people to be profiled on or prejudice against, it happens to a lot of people. Disabled, gay communities and the working class.

You dont know me. The last thing I am is privileged,my wife always tells me to be easier on our son. But I think he is lazy, I love him but he is lazy. The last thing anyone could say about me is I'm lazy, second to last would be I'm privileged.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

I know how to deal with racism Chich mate. But thanks for the tips. Your clearly understand what it's like to racially abused more than I do so I should listen to you.

I know what a feels like to be abused sure I do. As you said you know how to deal with it so that's great.

But genuinely you come across as a nice guy. So if you are in the supermarket in Luton and someone shouts at you a racist word then you need to report it. Then we can get a really clear idea of the level of racism in this country.

 

[nayenezgani]

White privilege? Growing up on a council estate in north London leaving school at 15 to be a labourer. Saving up to buy a locksmith franchise, working 7 days a week travelling all over then selling up. That's privilege is it?

I speak with a common ray winstone accent. I had the looks when I went into the banks or saw my accountant, the sneering snide looks because of my accent. When I brought a nice car through money I earned I saw the quick glances the salesman did to each other. I'm not a drug dealer or a bank robber but I saw them profiling me because of my accent.

It is not the reserve of black and Asian people to be profiled on or prejudice against, it happens to a lot of people. Disabled, gay communities and the working class.

You dont know me. The last thing I am is privileged,my wife always tells me to be easier on our son. But I think he is lazy, I love him but he is lazy. The last thing anyone could say about me is I'm lazy, second to last would be I'm privileged.

I don't see racism in my life, therefore it must not be a problem anywhere else. It's textbook.

You seem like a genuinely nice bloke, but also incapable of taking yourself outside of your own experiences, without becoming totally defensive.

 

[nayenezgani]

It's not literal privilege either, it's inherited from generations and generations. It's the privilege of not having to grow up with automatic social hatred surrounding you.

Not "oh he's a bit poor and smelly" but "I fudgein' hate this person because of his skin colour so much that I may do harm to him, I want him out of MY fudgein country"

You come from a working class background, fine, so do i. But that's not comparable to the experience of someone who has grown up in worse than that, plus had systemic racism thrown on top.

I think you know this. I'm white, working class, but I know what privilege I enjoy compared to many.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

I don't see racism in my life, therefore it must not be a problem anywhere else. It's textbook.

You seem like a genuinely nice bloke, but also incapable of taking yourself outside of your own experiences, without becoming totally defensive.

Nope that is not what I said. I asked to be shown where the racism is. Then when racism occurs for it to be reported to the authorities so that we can have a true account of the situation and as I said I have not received racist abuse but I have been profiled for my accent.

What could also be textbook is calling anyone racist who tries to discuss an alternative view.

Should make clear here and a bit like a red top tabloid I'm going to do it in capitals. MILLWALL FANS ARE RACIST SCUM but I just dont think booing the black lives matter movement is.

Now if they booked kick it out. I would agree as kick it out are not political and were a very good organisation horribly undermined by the F.A. most notably for not backing Anton Ferdinand.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

It's not literal privilege either, it's inherited from generations and generations. It's the privilege of not having to grow up with automatic social hatred surrounding you.

Not "oh he's a bit poor and smelly" but "I fudgein' hate this person because of his skin colour so much that I may do harm to him, I want him out of MY fudgein country"

You come from a working class background, fine, so do i. But that's not comparable to the experience of someone who has grown up in worse than that, plus had systemic racism thrown on top.

But I'm from a working class background I worked with loads on the building sites and a few in the shop I now work part time in and none have this hatred of people of different skin colour you talk about.

I'm sure the are some but I just dont think it is as widespread as you say and we will never know if people do not report every incident of racism.

 

[LutonSpurs]

I know what a feels like to be abused sure I do. As you said you know how to deal with it so that's great.

But genuinely you come across as a nice guy. So if you are in the supermarket in Luton and someone shouts at you a racist word then you need to report it. Then we can get a really clear idea of the level of racism in this country.

I'd not report them. fudge that. I'd have it out with them there and then. But that's me. And it's my choice. I know how racist it is in this country. I was born here man.

 

[Grays_1890]

I'd not report them. fudge that. I'd have it out with them there and then. But that's me. And it's my choice. I know how racist it is in this country. I was born here man.

I have experienced extreme antisemitism, as a Spurs fan I have experienced it more than have seen racism but thats not me saying it does not exist, its just natural that as a Spurs fan with a Spurs badge on my jacket I would be called a dirty yid. I would not necessarily though say that because of what I have experienced that I believe the UK is a hugely racist/antisemitic country because the kindness I have experienced in my life and seen by FAR outweighs the hurt and I would like to think educated people would also see that 150 men lead by Tommy Robinson does not reflect the whole of the UK.

As a Jew who has experienced Antisemitism in the sport I would not like players to take the knee for us because of what Chelsea and West Ham fans have done/do I would prefer to seek action, action which is not apologist because of the Y word use by Spurs fans. If I was Black like Les Ferdinand who echoed that view early on I see the same for the BLM knee and as I have said to death on here, make real actions to kick out racism rather than make it about booing the knee which despite being terrible is not anywhere near the real issue here when we are talking institutional racism in a sport.

 

[Glenda's Legs]

But I'm from a working class background I worked with loads on the building sites and a few in the shop I now work part time in and none have this hatred of people of different skin colour you talk about.

I'm sure the are some but I just dont think it is as widespread as you say and we will never know if people do not report every incident of racism.

I don't think racism has to mean hatred per se, but there can still be racism and prejudice.
I remember you mentioning one of your colleagues had been into a car showroom but had walked out because the dealer was (and sorry, I can't remember exactly) Indian or Pakistani or certainly someone not perceived as English/British. Maybe that colleague wouldn't class herself as racist at all and she wouldn't be abusive to someone due to their skin colour, hey, she may even have Indian friends - but even unintentionally, and without hatred, she has made a pre-judgement or a decision based on the heritage of the salesperson. If that dealer was even aware of what happened, it's not something reportable.
I think (and I'm white, so certainly can't speak from experience) it's as much about attitude and assumptions and casual or unconscious racism as it is about outright abusiveness. The latter is much easier to identify and deal with.

There was something in the news recently about a black barrister who was challenged for being in the courtroom, because she was thought to be the defendant. That happened multiple times in the same day, by different people.
A (black) colleague of mine has spoken about going into shops and being followed, at a distance, by security. Not as a once off but on numerous occasions. That has never happened to me.
Another colleague has mentioned her 18 year old son being regularly stopped in his car by the police and asked whose car he is driving, but this had never happened to any of his (white) friends living and driving in the same area.
Small examples perhaps (and I'm not for one minute suggesting that is as bad as it gets) but there's more than a strong hint of racial prejudices in those actions but not necessarily something that could be proven (maybe the last one could be, but then you are arguing against authority), and not necessarily borne out of hatred but rather out of prejudice. If that is what you or your children live, day to day, then it's no surprise that it feels that society is racist, even if not everyone in that society is so.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

I'd not report them. fudge that. I'd have it out with them there and then. But that's me. And it's my choice. I know how racist it is in this country. I was born here man.

Well I am afraid that is the wrong thing to do. To stop it and to stop it from happening again to you or someone else is to report it so the police can deal with it.

If the police dont want to deal with it and I can quite believe in the 80s and 90s they did not want to, less believing of it today. Then you go to anti racist organisations so that we have a clear idea of the size of the issue.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

I don't think racism has to mean hatred per se, but there can still be racism and prejudice.
I remember you mentioning one of your colleagues had been into a car showroom but had walked out because the dealer was (and sorry, I can't remember exactly) Indian or Pakistani or certainly someone not perceived as English/British. Maybe that colleague wouldn't class herself as racist at all and she wouldn't be abusive to someone due to their skin colour, hey, she may even have Indian friends - but even unintentionally, and without hatred, she has made a pre-judgement or a decision based on the heritage of the salesperson. If that dealer was even aware of what happened, it's not something reportable.
I think (and I'm white, so certainly can't speak from experience) it's as much about attitude and assumptions and casual or unconscious racism as it is about outright abusiveness. The latter is much easier to identify and deal with.

There was something in the news recently about a black barrister who was challenged for being in the courtroom, because she was thought to be the defendant. That happened multiple times in the same day, by different people.
A (black) colleague of mine has spoken about going into shops and being followed, at a distance, by security. Not as a once off but on numerous occasions. That has never happened to me.
Another colleague has mentioned her 18 year old son being regularly stopped in his car by the police and asked whose car he is driving, but this had never happened to any of his (white) friends living and driving in the same area.
Small examples perhaps (and I'm not for one minute suggesting that is as bad as it gets) but there's more than a strong hint of racial prejudices in those actions but not necessarily something that could be proven (maybe the last one could be, but then you are arguing against authority), and not necessarily borne out of hatred but rather out of prejudice. If that is what you or your children live, day to day, then it's no surprise that it feels that society is racist, even if not everyone in that society is so.

I get what your saying.

Yes was steff from admin and I was shocked and disgusted and gave her a wide berth since. Probably should have reported it with hindsight but it was almost like I didn't hear it and had to do a double take. If I were used to having experiences like that regularly I would straight away say something.

I also get the shall we call it subtle bias. When it's from the police then it has to be brought up because if the stop and search is so much more then white people, that is not fair and is outright racism and needs to stop through sacking or better training.

Lots of different people everyday receive slight prejudices, myself included. I just think though those Millwall fans were most probably racist I dont believe the action in itself is racist.