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Quacks & Pseudoscience

Discussion in 'Randomination' started by scaramanga, 15 Dec 2015.

  1. the dza

    the dza Christian Ziege

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    Probably the most sensible reply! If you have an ache or pain and you try something different (that definitely doesn't work as there's no scientific evidence) and the pain goes away, then that's all there is to it. Whether it's a trick of the mind or whatever, if it no longer hurts then it's job done as far as pain relief goes.
     
  2. parklane1

    parklane1 Andy Thompson

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    To be honest mate i would not waste my time trawling through looking for stuff they you would close your mind too, you are blinkered and have tunnel vision on a lot of things and its a pointless debate.

    But if it makes you feel any better " fill your boots".
     
  3. the dza

    the dza Christian Ziege

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    I wouldn't advise anyone who has cancer to try and cure it with acupuncture. But for a back ache, it's worth a go for some people.
     
  4. scaramanga

    scaramanga Tommy Harmer Staff Member

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    People often turn to alternative "medicine" when their pain is at its worst. It is usually the increased magnitude of pain that drives them to do so.

    When pain is at its worst, there is only one direction in which it can go. Assigning causation to their actions is merely a side effect of how we have evolved and as a species we have never properly grown out of it. It was always beneficial to assume the thing that looks like a tiger is a tiger because doing the opposite ends up in being eaten every now and then by dappled sunlight. It's the same trickery that makes us see faces in clouds and Jesus on toast.
     
    Ex-Pat Jennings likes this.
  5. scaramanga

    scaramanga Tommy Harmer Staff Member

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    On the contrary, my mind is entirely open to anything which can be shown by empirical methods to be effective.

    You know what they call alternative medicine that's been proven to work? Medicine.
     
  6. scaramanga

    scaramanga Tommy Harmer Staff Member

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    Why not just burn £50 notes? It's as relevant to curing backache as acupuncture but it avoids putting money into the hands of dangerous charlatans.
     
  7. metalgear

    metalgear Johnny Morrison

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    So did acupuncture cure the woman in the production line in the first post of this thread?

    Sent from my SM-T819Y using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
     
  8. scaramanga

    scaramanga Tommy Harmer Staff Member

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    Her sickness recurred, she didn't enjoy her working environment and left. A good win in the end.
     
  9. the dza

    the dza Christian Ziege

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    If you say so.

    Remember everyone -- if you go and pay someone to put pins in your back and you feel better afterwards, you are actually killing people.
     
  10. scaramanga

    scaramanga Tommy Harmer Staff Member

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    If everybody stopped funding acupuncturists these people would be alive:
    https://edzardernst.com/2013/02/how...ture-caused-and-are-acupuncturists-in-denial/

    That doesn't count those people who thought alternative "medicine" was a viable alternative to real medicine.

    By paying an acupuncturist, you are propping up an industry that kills people for no benefit and does no good to balance it.
     
    Last edited: 31 Aug 2018
  11. nayimfromthehalfwayline

    nayimfromthehalfwayline Cecil Poynton

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    I think this is the catch.

    At a minor level, if you think taking some sort of extract makes you feel good - then fine. If acupuncture makes you feel better - then fine. I think the issue is when you have a more serious issue, and continue to turn to alternative and unproven methods.

    I think the issue for many is, without wanting to sound like Im being sarcy, things like Acupuncture could be a gateway to rather more harmful choices later on.
     
  12. milo

    milo Vivian Woodward Staff Member

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    Surely acupuncture is hard woo (needles and that) and homeopathy is the gateway
     
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  13. nayimfromthehalfwayline

    nayimfromthehalfwayline Cecil Poynton

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    Well its not like they are big needles, or they are doing anything major, not sure I see it as "hard" at all.
     
  14. ShipOfTheseus

    ShipOfTheseus Neil Sullivan

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    @nayimfromthehalfwayline has it right.

    Homeopathy is the hardest form of woo there is. The water memory is bad enough, the dilution is utterly barking and the ritual beating of water against a leather cushion (yes, really) takes it to levels of nutso that flower remedies and crystal therapy can only dream of.

    Acupuncture has a variety of mutually inconsistent woo theories to underpin it, but the idea that sticking pins in nerves might have an impact on pain responses sounds plausible enough on the surface, drawing people in to a world of arrant nonsense.
     
  15. milo

    milo Vivian Woodward Staff Member

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    I wasn't being serious.
     
  16. parklane1

    parklane1 Andy Thompson

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    On the contrary mate, you are all those things and have shown that in some of your posts over several subjects. However i will say i love you mate because you always make me laugh. :p
     
  17. milo

    milo Vivian Woodward Staff Member

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    Are you saying that Scara would not accept the results of trial following empirical methods?
     
  18. the dza

    the dza Christian Ziege

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    I hope you have never smoked or drank alcohol, because by doing so, you have propped up an industry that has killed thousands of people every year since GHod knows when.

    If people are stupid enough to try and treat a serious illness with unproven methods and then they die, that is on them. If someone has a gimpy back/shoulder/whatever and they try something different and get relief from it, then more power to them.
     
  19. Danishfurniturelover

    Danishfurniturelover Paul Walsh

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    Acupuncture is the same as massage. It reaches trigger points and relieves pressure. That is proven. It is legitimate pain relief.

    Whether it can cure internal and structural issues is not proven. I would have reservations about that but it is a proven method of pain relief.

    If you don't believe in it then you can't believe in massage and should be contacting the club saying we employ quacks because massage does not work.
     
  20. milo

    milo Vivian Woodward Staff Member

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    Like you, I am inclined to not care what people spend their own money on. I do think though that it is wrong for public health systems, like the NHS, to spend money on things that are unproven. I also think that unproven remedies should not be sold in chemists alongside medicine because it gives them unearned authencity/credibility.
     
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