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Putin & Russia

Discussion in 'Randomination' started by Rorschach, 25 Nov 2018.

  1. Mikey10

    Mikey10 Vedran Corluka

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    The message on the side of the partially exploded missile suggests otherwise.

    Quite the coincidence, too, that the bombs fall on the only place where thousands are gathered in a city under attack.

    (RT isn’t telling you the whole truth, by the way.)
     
    Robbo and Rorschach like this.
  2. Finney Is Back

    Finney Is Back Ian Walker

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    To be fair Russia does have a lot of brick weaponry…. Interesting how low their reserves must be getting if having to resort to firing Tochka-U missiles…. Or maybe they’re not low on reserves and simply using these as it’s easy to claim a mistake when they just so happen to hit another civilian target.
     
  3. Rorschach

    Rorschach Vivian Woodward

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    What? Is your argument that they missed the nearby apartment block and accidentally hit the train station and other bad brick that happened in the past? Are you serious?
     
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  4. SpurMeUp

    SpurMeUp Andy Thompson

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    Where did he say that? Isn’t the takeaway from his/her post that war is always a brick show, even when it’s the best equipped and funded armies in the world? With huge losses on the Russian side - losses of personnel and kit - the Russians are desperate. Even armies that are well funded and elite kill innocent people or their own soldiers. An army and regime that is desperate will always lack discipline. Which is so crucial to carrying out a ‘clean’ war. Is anyone surprised? For me it highly questionable whether we in the west should be fuelling this war. Yes we achieve the aim of pushing Putin back, but at what cost? What level of destruction would have been acceptable?

    In Yemen the Saudi led coalition have some of the most precise weaponry money can buy. All of it bought from leading UK and US arms companies. Weapons that are more precise than the Russians have. The Saudis have planes with insanely precise computers that can deliver payloads to within a inch of an intended target. We know better than most because we supplied half the planes and trained the Saudis in how to use them. Did it stop these trained pilots blowing up a school bus filled with kids and the many other atrocities? Few seem to care that we actually facilitate this with weapons made around us. Instead people call for greater armament of Ukrainians so we can fuel more war. How about we get our house in order first?
     
    Last edited: 9 Apr 2022
  5. DTA

    DTA Tim Sherwood

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    i agree with you highlighting our hypocrisy it is very unpalatable to be honest. But we can be wrong in Saudi and right in Ukraine.

    which is probably where we are at.

    And there is probably some racism and otherisation thrown in to making that so, also some realpolitik and Corruption. All from the top down to the people on the this board.

    we are being told to hate Russia, but Russia/putin is making it easy for us to oblige.
     
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  6. SpurMeUp

    SpurMeUp Andy Thompson

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    While Snyder outlined the current Russian narrative and how “Nazi” has become a catch-all for explaining away the horrors of its actions in Ukraine, I was surprised there was no reference to the relatively recent far right movements in Ukraine that were real. They did exist. To not even reference them means I would question this source for its balance or impartiality.

    type in Bellingcat and Ukraine far right for all manner of info.

    https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-...-nazis-a-lesson-from-ukraines-new-government/

    The 2014 revolution in Ukraine was actually driven by far right movements.

    Have to put this in: I am not seeking to justify or defend Putins actions in any shape or form, just seeking a fair and balanced viewpoint.
     
  7. Scoopage

    Scoopage Adel Taarabt

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    Perhaps worth mentioning Russia´s Far Fight problem, the fact that they are acting like the Nazi´s- the real ones from last century and that they fund most of the far right in the West. Then it´s a bit more fair and balanced
     
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  8. SpurMeUp

    SpurMeUp Andy Thompson

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    okay fair enough. Slightly different point. I’m not aware of Russias far right problem, maybe you can link to it? During the world cup the police state had a word with any potential Russian hooligans and let them know in no uncertain terms than any trouble and they’d be sent to the gulag. Not sure what other things have been going on but it’s a big country I’m sure you can reference something.

    Completely agree about Russia funding divisive movements in Europe and the US. Posted in this thread many times about Aaron Banks for example. But also about how the US (and to a lessor extent the EU) probably initiated these post-Cold War tactics.

    have a look at this for example which predates Russia trying to fund Trump, Brexit and the far right https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2004/nov/26/ukraine.usa

    Again: not seeking to justify Putins war, it is wholly wrong. It is just interesting to look at the histories of this conflict and understand what happen behind the scenes. If people find it upsetting and just wish to follow the (largely correct) dominant narrative I won’t post. I don’t wish to upset anyone.
     
    Last edited: 9 Apr 2022
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  9. Scoopage

    Scoopage Adel Taarabt

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    Head of the Wagner Group https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dmitry_Utkin
    Described as Putin's private army by Wiki or you could say Putin's version of Blackwater.
     
  10. Trixster

    Trixster Erik Edman

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    No, think you missed my point which was that there could be other possibilities and that errors in theatre can and do happen.
    (It was simply that. I am not going to justify anything that happens there by either side that is outside the realms of normal combat.)

    Seeing as you have intimate geographical knowledge of the area and the nearby apartments, could you also pin-point the locations of Ukrainian forces in the area for me?

    War is brick, end of, conflict brings out the very base in humans beings. And as usual, with most things in life, the innocent usually bear the brunt of everything.
     
  11. Trixster

    Trixster Erik Edman

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    The message doesn't translate to exactly what you think it does btw.
    Rocket range is ~120km, I believe most firing points in that area would put it at the very limit of that range and the systems are not meant to be the most accurate as it is. Where are the Ukrainian troops stationed in the city, is there any info on that?

    Ah, the obligatory reference that as I have a differing viewpoint I must be getting brainwashed by a pro-Russia media.. Sorry, but you're so far off point with that it is quite amusing.
    I'm not allowed to have an open mind until all the facts are presented, that is something which is frowned upon nowadays?

    You don't know what you don't know, as they say.
     
  12. Rorschach

    Rorschach Vivian Woodward

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    Oh, I didn't miss your point. You were describing how this war crime among the thousands that are being committed by the Russians might have been an accident. It wasn't incidentally, but there will be more along any minute now.
     
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  13. SteveAWOL

    SteveAWOL Andy Thompson

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  14. Trixster

    Trixster Erik Edman

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    Wow, okay.
    I was describing this one event, not the others - maybe a trip to Specsavers?

    It's funny how even the Beeb and various other outlets haven't yet said outright that this was deliberate, why you might ask - because despite the fact there is a good chance that it might have been there isn't any solid evidence yet. Once there is, I will condone it just the same as any normal person.

    The other events where it is crystal clear that there have been deliberate attacks, I have condemned when/if queried. There is no excuse for targeting civilians in any war, if you like I could repost this using 50pt or such so that you get the message rather than tarring me with some "it's okay to commit war crimes" brush. If you wish to live in your flowery world where there is zero percent of errors happening in an active theatre, good luck to you. I on the other hand with my own personal experiences will not.
     
  15. Finney Is Back

    Finney Is Back Ian Walker

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    If you’re firing Tochka-U missiles from a reasonably long range then it shows you’re either low on decent weapons but getting desperate, or you really don’t care about how many civilians you kill. IMO it actually shows both of those things.

    This invasion has shown pretty clearly that Russia have a poorly trained, poorly commanded and poorly equipped military. I think they know the only way they win this war is by committing war crimes and hoping it scares Ukraine into surrender. .
     
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  16. Rorschach

    Rorschach Vivian Woodward

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    Specsavers? Sick burn. You've been deflecting, apologizing, minimizing, whatever you want to call it over and over in this thread. I think you are a little conflicted about what is going on but let's call a truce. I'm going to save you and me some time and bug out of this. Stick me on ignore please.
     
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  17. SteveAWOL

    SteveAWOL Andy Thompson

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  18. Rorschach

    Rorschach Vivian Woodward

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    Reports of chemical weapons being used in Mariupol. Unconfirmed I might add.
     
    Last edited: 11 Apr 2022
  19. Gutter Boy

    Gutter Boy Tim Sherwood

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    I've got a new idea for ending all this brick after seeing the Austrian chancellor's visit to Moscow this week: Boris Johnson, remote controlled suicide vest. Two birds, one stone.
     
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  20. Mikey10

    Mikey10 Vedran Corluka

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    Would need to be a fudging big vest. His post-covid fitness regime didn’t last long.
     

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