Pull back your expectations people

[Glenda's Legs]

I am not pulling back my expectations.
I don't expect us to win all the time. I don't have any trophy expectations as such, I try not to be 'entitled', although of course I would absolutely love us to win something.
But I do have the expectation that the players (and the manager) will start every match looking as though they intend to win it, and actually try to do so. That was not the case last night.
I wouldn't have thought that's an unrealistic expectation for any fan to have, it's the minimum we should be getting, yet even that seems too much sometimes.
I want - expect - to see every single game going forward fought for from from the outset, by every single player. And if any player can't put in the effort, drop them and get rid in the summer. Maybe I'm just tired and grouchy and over-reacting, but last night has really p1ssed me off.

 

[Mr Gogolak]

it's a six-month pre-season to allow Conte to assess the squad and focus on the players he can/wants to keep and start next season with a bang.
I pray you are right, and that we sign players early, rather than doing the usual and letting the deals wait till the last day of the window....but we know what history tells us

Whenever a player hits a poor patch of form or when results don't go our way, a lot of people claim that said player should be dropped immediately ('I don't want to see X ever again in a Spurs shirt') or they question the manager who refuses to change half the team every other game.

The last manager I can think of who made major changes to his first XI depending on the opposition is Howard Kendall. Lobanovsky's Dynamo Kiev team illustrate a major change in football, in my opinion. Nowadays, it's all about patterns and drills. Therefore, you need your main players to play as many games as possible so that they would a) get a better understanding not only of the system but of the combination of passes you're looking for and b) get a better understanding of how their team-mates behave within the system.

Ironically, people who have a more 'old-school' approach to football, like Mourinho, are often criticised for not coaching their teams properly.

My understanding of the game today is that a manager's career at a club falls under two constraints: he needs to survive the first year with players who can't apply his ideas as well as they should and then, he has to strike an impossible balance between refreshing his squad to make sure his message will continue to be heard despite the routine and keeping a stable first XI so that he won't lose the benefits of his first year of hard work. Very few people manage to do that and that's why you rarely see a manager lasting more than three years at the same club.

 

[SouthStand322]

I genuinely didn't expect more than what we got last night. I predicted a narrow loss before the game, 4th away trip up north in quick succession and a paper thin squad - we were out fought and we had little on the bench to change the momentum of the game.

The squad was thin on numbers before January and its thinner now. Any talk of 4th needs to stop now.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I genuinely didn't expect more than what we got last night. I predicted a narrow loss before the game, 4th away trip up north in quick succession and a paper thin squad - we were out fought and we had little on the bench to change the momentum of the game.

The squad was thin on numbers before January and its thinner now. Any talk of 4th needs to stop now.

Agree with all of this except the last sentence
We’re not gonna be playing 3 times a week now which suits conte and the lack of depth we have

 

[Finney Is Back]

I think 4-5 successful signings this summer makes a huge difference.

Our strongest eleven is good except for the lack of a real attacking right sided wing back. We have decent cover in some areas, in others not so much. Somewhere around 13-14 players Conte can trust to do a good job in his system with the right players around them. (We'll never agree on all the specific players, but somewhere around that range for me).

Make that number more 17-18, strengthen the first team in a couple of key areas in the process. That's a very different picture.

Making 4-5 successful signings is a massive ask of course. But even 3 relatively quick successes out of say 5 signings makes a solid difference. Particularly if one or two of the players already here can step up a bit.

Not going to be easy. If we fail in the summer the Conte project probably will also fail and the sacking spiral will continue.

As well as being incredibly weak in the RWB spot our strongest 11 is also missing 3 centre backs who are all comfortable on the ball (as is necessary in a back 3) as well as us being very weak defending set pieces. The strongest 11 also lacks a central midfield that can both break up the opposition's attacks and play through a press.
We need (at least) 3 new signings to come straight into our first team next season (CB, RWB, CM) (and that's assuming Bentacur is good enough to be a first choice player). We also need much better cover at centre back. I think we need a minimum of 7 signings for the 7 first team squad this summer (1 x GK, 1 x RWB, 2 x CB, 1 x CM, 1 x AM, 1 x CF) and in reality we could probably actually do with a further RWB option unless we see Doherty staying and playing a role as backup or one of our youth players coming through in this position (I've not seen anything suggesting any of them are anywhere near close)

 

[Finney Is Back]

Nobody's happy with what happened last night but this season was never about winning things. For me (and, hopefully for the club too), it's a six-month pre-season to allow Conte to assess the squad and focus on the players he can/wants to keep and start next season with a bang.

Under Santo, we looked like a bottom third team. I didn't rate him much, but he's not an idiot or an amateur either. He got some decent results at Wolves. If we looked so poor, that's because our players are poor - something a lot of people on this very forum refused to see way back when Mourinho was our manager.

They're poor, they're not all suited to Conte's system, some of them have a suspect mentality and Conte's system is demanding. It will take time. There are plenty of positives already: despite what I read, we create chances in almost every game (that wasn't the case under Mourinho and Santo) and some players have improved over the past few months. That's something to build on but, for that, everyone need to keep calm and carry on. Getting 4th spot this season would have been nothing short of a miracle, when you think about where we were when Conte arrived. We have one of the best managers in the business. Me, I'd let him do his thing, take the defeats as a learning experience and wait until next January to assess the situation.

Good post, I agree with a lot of it. Once the club completely fcuked up the manager appointment last spring/summer this season was always likely to be a write off. We need to somehow scrape into a European spot (preferably Europa League and not Conference) to ensure that our first team budget isn't further cut next season compared to this one and then hope that Paratici can complete some good deals on what is likely to be quite a small net transfer budget anyway.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Good post, I agree with a lot of it. Once the club completely fcuked up the manager appointment last spring/summer this season was always likely to be a write off. We need to somehow scrape into a European spot (preferably Europa League and not Conference) to ensure that our first team budget isn't further cut next season compared to this one and then hope that Paratici can complete some good deals on what is likely to be quite a small net transfer budget anyway.

If we are to have a small net transfer budget, I'm not sure how we achieve the 7 summer signings you suggest in your other post above?

 

[Finney Is Back]

If we are to have a small net transfer budget, I'm not sure how we achieve the 7 summer signings you suggest in your other post above?

Our likely transfer/wage budget and what the first team needs to be competitive are two mutually exclusive things unfortunately.

 

[DubaiSpur]

If we are to have a small net transfer budget, I'm not sure how we achieve the 7 summer signings you suggest in your other post above?

We don't, mate. Finney is thinking about the good of the club, and 7 in, 7 out is needed for that.

The people who set our budgets are not thinking about the good of the club, just their own pockets. So they will not allow that.

Hence the hope that Paratici pulls a rabbit out of the hat. That rabbit is likely to be selling Kane, who must now be thoroughly sick of this, and using that to desperately try another 'sold Elvis, bought the Beatles' strategy like we tried in 2013, when we bought five donkeys, Lamela and Eriksen.

Even then, the most important thing for our dear and committed owners will be that we absolutely avoid asking them to put any money in, so it's really just hoping on a miracle that somehow we replace Kane and strengthen the squad, while also targeting bargain bins and second choices because we won't pay for the first choices.

Baldini, a sporting director with as much pedigree as Paratici, couldn' t manage it and walked when he inevitably failed the impossible task he was given. So Paratici is up against it.

 

[Jurgen the German]

I feel that this is the problem - almost every game could go one way or the other - there are wafer thin margins between winning and losing - BUT against the likes of Burnley and Middlesbrough and Southampton and Wolves we should be much better than them yet dont have the tools or the tactics to demonstrate the superior ability we have.

The more that has happened before and after that City win feels like a real red herring - after all Palace have beaten City this season at the Etihad too.

The inconsistency of result and performance is evidence that this is an average group of players. Football is a 'weak link' game - your weakest links get exploited and there's only so many times that your outstanding players can get you out of the brick. Conte achieved new manager bounce (we more than doubled our points per game ratio over his first six games) but since then results have plateaued. I don't suggest the problem is with him but equally I don't see that he is having much of a positive impact right now either.

I wish 'Top 4' could be dropped entirely from the conversation - we're nowhere near Top 4 levels of consistency. My expectation for the season is that Conte can establish his patterns of play and his strongest XI so that we can hit next season from a running start and some momentum. In the meantime though we will continue to see boom and bust results for the foreseeable future as we just don't possess the ability to string a run of results together.

This 100%. We’re not good enough to finish in the top 4, even though no one seems to want it. People were seriously contemplating us catching Chelsea until recently

 

[Lilbaz]

Think i predicted 6th at the start of the season. Any higher i'll be happy.

 

[El Guepardo]

Think i predicted 6th at the start of the season. Any higher i'll be happy.

We won’t finish any higher. Arsenal and United will occupy 4th and 5th whichever way around it finishes and we will be at least 5 points behind 5th. We require serious work over the summer.
I think that any club undergoes a transformation under a new manager. What worries me, and always has, is that Conte only has 18 months. How can players commit to a future transformation when there is a good chance that the manager won’t even be there at the end of the following season? We will be trying to sign players and openly admitting to them that beyond the first season, their next manager could be anyone, and could be someone whose tactics and squad the new signing will not fit into.
That’s not going to help us sign anyone. And yes, managers may be relieved of their duty fairly regularly through the league, but that doesn’t mean that players want to join a club at which the manager already has that proposed end date coming soon.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

We won’t finish any higher. Arsenal and United will occupy 4th and 5th whichever way around it finishes and we will be at least 5 points behind 5th. We require serious work over the summer.
I think that any club undergoes a transformation under a new manager. What worries me, and always has, is that Conte only has 18 months. How can players commit to a future transformation when there is a good chance that the manager won’t even be there at the end of the following season? We will be trying to sign players and openly admitting to them that beyond the first season, their next manager could be anyone, and could be someone whose tactics and squad the new signing will not fit into.
That’s not going to help us sign anyone. And yes, managers may be relieved of their duty fairly regularly through the league, but that doesn’t mean that players want to join a club at which the manager already has that proposed end date coming soon.

If he largely gets the players he wants in the summer and next season looks like we are on to something he will stay the next as well, mutually activating the 1 year extension.

The caveat being, whether his heart is in it in the first place.

 

[billyiddo]

I would have thought there would be a review and extension signed in the summer, if there's not then i think we're in for another parting of ways mid season and another setback in our attempts to rebuild

 

[Lilbaz]

We won’t finish any higher. Arsenal and United will occupy 4th and 5th whichever way around it finishes and we will be at least 5 points behind 5th. We require serious work over the summer.
I think that any club undergoes a transformation under a new manager. What worries me, and always has, is that Conte only has 18 months. How can players commit to a future transformation when there is a good chance that the manager won’t even be there at the end of the following season? We will be trying to sign players and openly admitting to them that beyond the first season, their next manager could be anyone, and could be someone whose tactics and squad the new signing will not fit into.
That’s not going to help us sign anyone. And yes, managers may be relieved of their duty fairly regularly through the league, but that doesn’t mean that players want to join a club at which the manager already has that proposed end date coming soon.

Utd play city and we've got everton. We could be 2 points behind on tuesday with 2 games in hand. Then have to go to old trafford.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

I would have thought there would be a review and extension signed in the summer, if there's not then i think we're in for another parting of ways mid season and another setback in our attempts to rebuild

I think we can only make a call on 'if things are going well' at the earliest by the end of the summer transfer window (and that will all be about whether he feels backed or not). Before then nothing much is going to reveal itself for the rest of the season, beyond consistency.

I'm confident Conte will carry on if he feels they are.

The rebuild continues regardless, that's the DofF job. Having such a strong minded demanding manager is not that helpful to mesh with the clubs ideology, as Conte has already commented about 'our way' but we need to be strong in our beliefs so any transition (if he goes) is minimally disruptive

 

[AdamB]

I think we can only make a call on 'if things are going well' at the earliest by the end of the summer transfer window (and that will all be about whether he feels backed or not).

Agreed. If we sign 5-6 players in the summer, am sure he'll stay. If its say 2-3, I can't believe he would

FInd it amazing how hot under the collar some people get about his contract only being 18 mos though!

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Agreed. If we sign 5-6 players in the summer, am sure he'll stay. If its say 2-3, I can't believe he would

FInd it amazing how hot under the collar some people get about his contract only being 18 mos though!

I find it odd that people think he will walk away from his £12m a year at any point
He doenst do that
He waits to get sacked

 

[Mikey10]

Utd play city and we've got everton. We could be 2 points behind on tuesday with 2 games in hand. Then have to go to old trafford.

Lay all you’ve got on an Everton win in those circumstances.

 

[Lilbaz]

Lay all you’ve got on an Everton win in those circumstances.

We'll beat everton.