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Politics, politics, politics

Discussion in 'Classic Threads' started by markysimmo, 26 May 2014.

  1. Grays_1890

    Grays_1890 Milija Aleksic

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    Did you watch the whole BBC article? Its down to electric car manufacturing, quote from the SVP for Europe and the CEO has said its not brexit related.

    HONDA does not sell enough cars in Europe full stop for then to justify the factories and workforce when they are seeing sales in North America and China grow.

    I am not sat here with head in sand over companies closing due to Brexit but you cant pick the ones that have nothing to do with it aand claim it is, especially when senior management say its not.
     
  2. Gutter Boy

    Gutter Boy Tim Sherwood

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    A good opportunity to nationalise the car plant and start making some British owned cars again?
     
    Gilzeantoscore likes this.
  3. ringo

    ringo Eidur Gudjohnsen

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    On Honda - whether or not the decision is Brexit related it doesn't serve Honda's interests to tinkle the UK govn off by saying so at this particularly sensitive (re Brexit) moment.
    It's not the Japanese way.

    But given Japan's trade deal with the EU, plus Japanese auto making it clear they wanted us in the customs union/free movement of goods with EU, and state of Brexit negotiations, it would be foolish to suggest Brexit played no role at all in decision.
     
  4. Grays_1890

    Grays_1890 Milija Aleksic

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    Well I will be foolish when listening to the CEO and SVP of Honda over yourself, you would be telling me to get real had he said it was Brexit and had I tried to come up with some theories to why it wasnt and that it was untrue.
     
  5. ringo

    ringo Eidur Gudjohnsen

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    Re Shamima -- having already let 100s of people back (apparently) decision to revoke looks like knee jerk response to public sentiment and worrying (from a legal perspective) precedent. Unless she is dual national. [he should change law and then apply it]. Maybe more for show and will get overturned through appeals.
     
  6. ringo

    ringo Eidur Gudjohnsen

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    Come on, you don't think I know better than the CEO..what does he know about his own company.
     
    Grays_1890 likes this.
  7. StephenH

    StephenH Tom Huddlestone

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    That went well last time!
    Ahh the Maxi and the might Meastro and wondrous Allegro ❤️
     
  8. Seedy Ron

    Seedy Ron Simon Davies

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    Could call it The Farage. "Put a Farage in your garage" - marketing writes itself, even if the double entendre makes you physically sick. GB would buy 10.
     
    StephenH and scaramanga like this.
  9. monkeybarry

    monkeybarry Dean Richards

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    So we have just made someone stateless.

    Interesting.
     
  10. Grays_1890

    Grays_1890 Milija Aleksic

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    Yeh, fair play goverments done something with abit of back bone there, interesting to see how it pans out.
     
  11. SpurMeUp

    SpurMeUp Chris Perry

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    Okay. Consider this: Honda Swindon produce around 160,000 cars a year. Its half what it was in the good times. A Honda Civic is about £18k. If you do the maths that is many many millions in revenue. Of that 160,000 cars most go to Europe. Some to the US, a few are sold here. Honda would not give up the millions that they are making on this (comparatively small) production. They would have kept things going were it not for (at least) two things. First and foremost, a new EU free trade deal the UK had no say over which means they can export cars from Japan to Europe. Before there was a 10% tax or tariff and that's why Japanese car firms made cars in the UK - to service Europe. Now they don't have to. That is the big piece here. When the CEO gives this bad news its not technically because of Brexit, it because their trade terms have changed. But had we been party to this trade deal, we would not have given up thousands of UK jobs lightly.

    Add on top of that that Honda need to plan for electric production lines, and the uncertainty of Brexit (will there be a hard exit disrupting supplies? see Honda's position on Brexit and the same guys quotes a year before https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45558424 ) Its a no brainer for the Japanese. Had the UK been in the EU we would not have given up these Japanese car jobs so easily as we'd have been at the trade negotiations. However, in return the EU will be able to sell billions worth of goods to Japan that have been stopped with tariffs on their end. It is estimated that the UK benefit from the free trade agreement with Japan is £3b+ each year in new trade. Outside the EU of course we won't get that. But we can make our own agreement with Japan if they'll listen and talk. It took the EU 4 years to do this deal.

    Honda senior management will have been planning this with their PR departments for sometime. Planning what they say, planning how not to damage their brand and standing in the UK. Of course they are not going to be divisive and alienate people by blaming the UK. What a stupid move that would be. Draw your own conclusions. But at least consider some of the details.
     
    Last edited: 19 Feb 2019
  12. Gutter Boy

    Gutter Boy Tim Sherwood

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    Bentley, Aston Martin, Jag, Lotus, Land Rover, Rolls-Royce etc. It was the best in the world until it got decimated when we joined the EEC in the mid-70s.
     
  13. Gutter Boy

    Gutter Boy Tim Sherwood

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    Krishnan reckons she's got dual-nationality - Bangladesh the other one
     
  14. StephenH

    StephenH Tom Huddlestone

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    You keep kidding yourself.
    They all failed due poor management and lack of investment
     
  15. Gutter Boy

    Gutter Boy Tim Sherwood

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    Membership of the TPP would give us better trading terms with Japan than Japan's deal with the EU.
     
    Danishfurniturelover likes this.
  16. SpurMeUp

    SpurMeUp Chris Perry

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    France protected their automotive industry from within the EU. With the government part owning their car firms at various times. It is not the EU that has caused us to lose our car industry.
     
  17. Grays_1890

    Grays_1890 Milija Aleksic

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    But how does that 160,000 compare to their growing markets:

    Mr Howells said that, in the light of changes in the industry, the company had to "look very closely" at where it was putting its investment.

    The company sells many more vehicles in North America, Japan and China than it does in Europe.

    "It has to be in a marketplace of a size for Honda, where it makes investment worthwhile.

    "The conclusion coming out of that is that that doesn't include Swindon - the relative size of the marketplace in Europe is significantly different."

    So basically redirecting their investments not doubling down on them
     
  18. SpurMeUp

    SpurMeUp Chris Perry

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    Yes they don't need to produce cars here now - they can send them in from Japan, because of the trade deal the EU struck without us at the table. Here is what Mr Howells said last September. This reality he outlines facing Honda has not changed.


    The senior vice president of Honda Europe has warned that a no-deal Brexit would cost his company tens of millions of pounds.

    Ian Howells told the BBC that quitting the bloc without an agreement would affect the carmaker's competitiveness in Europe.

    He said the Japanese firm was preparing for a no-deal outcome but had not discussed relocating its Swindon plant.

    The firm builds its Civic model in Britain for the global market.

    In an interview with Radio 5 live, Mr Howells said a no-deal Brexit would lead to costly trade barriers and disrupt its supply chain.

    "In terms of administration, we'd probably be looking at something like sixty odd thousand additional bits of documentation we would have to provide to get product to and from Europe," he told the Wake up to Money programme.

    "And clearly if we end up with World Trade Organization tariffs we'd have something like 10% costs in addition on our shipped product back into Europe, and that would certainly run into tens of millions of pounds."

    "Likewise when we're looking at componentry coming the other way, again [it could cost] tens of millions in terms of tariffs coming into the UK."

    Supply chain risks
    Like other carmakers in Britain, Honda only stores about an hour's worth of components at its Swindon plant to keep costs down.

    Instead it relies on about 350 truckloads of parts that are delivered from the continent each day.

    Mr Howells said the loss of "frictionless trade" in this supply chain would harm its production output and competitiveness.

    "If we are shipping and competing against a European manufacturer in Europe, they are not incurring those tariffs," he said.

    "And in the UK it would be the componentry cost that would be the main additional burden we would have to carry for UK customers."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45558424
     
    Last edited: 19 Feb 2019
  19. Grays_1890

    Grays_1890 Milija Aleksic

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    And in less than a year he has changed his tune, why not stick to the hymn sheet if he had already started the band playing?
     
  20. Grays_1890

    Grays_1890 Milija Aleksic

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    Labour obssesed with Isreal?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47296591

    A Labour MP has apologised for claiming a group of ex-colleagues who quit the party in protest over anti-Semitism may be backed by the Israeli government.

    Ruth George, the MP for High Peak, suggested it was "possible" the seven MPs who jumped ship on Monday were being supported by the state of Israel.
     
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