Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

[ShipOfTheseus]

I’m not sure, Johnson and his cadre are bad as they are corrupt and incompetent.

Corbyn’s ideology would have seen him attack certain groups just because of who they are.

The Russians bought their influence over the Tories, I think what they get for free from Corbyn would have been worse.

Yes. Ukraine is definitely better off with the opportunistic belligerent flag-shaggers deciding UK military policy than they would have been with Corbyn and Seumas Milne. And that’s probably more important than any other issue in this counterfactual scenario.

I know this isn’t how the Internet is supposed to work, but I retract my earlier, ill-considered statement.

 

[Jurgen the German]

https://amp.lbc.co.uk/news/tom-daley-legacy-colonialism-homophobia-commonwealth/

Tom Daley is a bit of a tit isn’t he? I lost my dad at a fairly young age like he did so I always had sympathy for him, but he’s talking BS here.

 

[Baleforce]

https://amp.lbc.co.uk/news/tom-daley-legacy-colonialism-homophobia-commonwealth/

Tom Daley is a bit of a tit isn’t he? I lost my dad at a fairly young age like he did so I always had sympathy for him, but he’s talking BS here.

I think he’s right, we did as much to spread Christianity as anyone.

 

[DTA]

https://amp.lbc.co.uk/news/tom-daley-legacy-colonialism-homophobia-commonwealth/

Tom Daley is a bit of a tit isn’t he? I lost my dad at a fairly young age like he did so I always had sympathy for him, but he’s talking BS here.

Well a lot of the commonwealth’s countries legal system is based on that left by the British, where at the time, it was in fact illegal to practice homosexuality. Look at what we did to Turing.

Now the issue is a lot of time has passed and I assume the majority of the old colonies have changed that particular antiquated law, so why haven’t the others? And that’s a valid counter point to what he expressed But to say colonialism had no baring and he is just chatting BS is not correct.

 

[Baleforce]

Well a lot of the commonwealth’s countries legal system is based on that left by the British, where at the time, it was in fact illegal to practice homosexuality. Look at what we did to Turing.

Now the issue is a lot of time has passed and I assume the majority of the old colonies have changed that particular antiquated law, so why haven’t the others? And that’s a valid counter point to what he expressed But to say colonialism had no baring and he is just chatting BS is not correct.

The church still has an inflated influence in the UK now, only last week the Archbishop of Canterbury tried to defend his churches ongoing bigotry, he said something along the lines of there being no solution, when surely he could just kick all of the homophobes out.

 

[Jurgen the German]

I think he’s right, we did as much to spread Christianity as anyone.

Yeah but those countries have governed themselves for 50+ years now so what’s their excuse for keeping such backward, prejudiced laws in place?

 

[Baleforce]

Yeah but those countries have governed themselves for 50+ years now so what’s their excuse for keeping such backward, prejudiced laws in place?

Run by humans. Who are backward and prejudiced.

Truss is rumoured to be campaigning privately on bringing back gay conversion therapy.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Well a lot of the commonwealth’s countries legal system is based on that left by the British, where at the time, it was in fact illegal to practice homosexuality. Look at what we did to Turing.

Now the issue is a lot of time has passed and I assume the majority of the old colonies have changed that particular antiquated law, so why haven’t the others? And that’s a valid counter point to what he expressed But to say colonialism had no baring and he is just chatting BS is not correct.

Yeah but they’ve had plenty of time to change their laws but haven’t, whereas Britain has and is one of the most diverse, cosmopolitan, accepting countries in the world. Millions of people wouldn’t want to come here if the country was as bad as people like Tom Daley make out it is. Essentially he’s too scared to call out the countries where bigotry and homophobia is still commonplace, so it’s an easy target to have a pop at his own nation even though we are one of the most tolerant countries in the western world. We seem to be in a place now where it’s racist to call out other countries for their bigotry. If this sort of thing was going on in Scotland, he’d be far quicker to call it out. Don’t get me wrong, we’re not perfect and we have our own problems, but some liberals have a real hard time acknowledging the progress we have made. Steven Pinker even coined a term for it “Progressophobia”.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Run by humans. Who are backward and prejudiced.

Truss is rumoured to be campaigning privately on bringing back gay conversion therapy.

He should be brave enough to call out those countries where actual laws still exist and are prejudiced against the LGBT community.

Obviously I don’t endorse what you are saying about Truss assuming it’s true but let’s keep things in perspective, we’re talking about someone being rumoured to bring certain outdated practices back vs countries that have actual laws in place that penalise LGBT.

 

[Baleforce]

Yeah but they’ve had plenty of time to change their laws but haven’t, whereas Britain has and is one of the most diverse, cosmopolitan, accepting countries in the world. Millions of people wouldn’t want to come here if the country was as bad as people like Tom Daley make out it is. Essentially he’s too scared to call out the countries where bigotry and homophobia is still commonplace, so it’s an easy target to have a pop at his own nation even though we are one of the most tolerant countries in the western world. We seem to be in a place now where it’s racist to call out other countries for their bigotry. If this sort of thing was going on in Scotland, he’d be far quicker to call it out. Don’t get me wrong, we’re not perfect and we have our own problems, but some liberals have a real hard time acknowledging the progress we have made. Steven Pinker even coined a term for it “Progressophobia”.

But we are not, this country is massively bigoted, look at what’s happened over the last 6 years, we blame all of our problems on foreigners, and now there is a growing campaign against Trans people, it’s only a matter of time before other minorities are targeted the same way.

 

[DTA]

Yeah but they’ve had plenty of time to change their laws but haven’t, whereas Britain has and is one of the most diverse, cosmopolitan, accepting countries in the world. Millions of people wouldn’t want to come here if the country was as bad as people like Tom Daley make out it is. Essentially he’s too scared to call out the countries where bigotry and homophobia is still commonplace, so it’s an easy target to have a pop at his own nation even though we are one of the most tolerant countries in the western world. We seem to be in a place now where it’s racist to call out other countries for their bigotry. If this sort of thing was going on in Scotland, he’d be far quicker to call it out. Don’t get me wrong, we’re not perfect and we have our own problems, but some liberals have a real hard time acknowledging the progress we have made. Steven Pinker even coined a term for it “Progressophobia”.

yeah they have had a lot time to change the law. that’s a valid counter point. All I’m saying it’s not as simple as saying that he is chatting BS.

 

[Baleforce]

He should be brave enough to call out those countries where actual laws still exist and are prejudiced against the LGBT community.

Obviously I don’t endorse what you are saying about Truss assuming it’s true but let’s keep things in perspective, we’re talking about someone being rumoured to bring certain outdated practices back vs countries that have actual laws in place that penalise LGBT.

Yes, there are countries where that is the case, ones we ran roughshod over and backed any dictator who would keep the precious flowing our way.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Yes, there are countries where that is the case, ones we ran roughshod over and backed any dictator who would keep the precious flowing our way.

I think at the very least, he’s not painting the full complete picture. And as I said before, he’s just scared to call out these countries that are still a lot more bigoted than his own country.

 

[Baleforce]

I think at the very least, he’s not painting the full complete picture. And as I said before, he’s just scared to call out these countries that are still a lot more bigoted than his own country.

Maybe, but he’s English right, this is the one he (and us), are responsible for.

And probably where he has most influence.

 

[Jurgen the German]

But we are not, this country is massively bigoted, look at what’s happened over the last 6 years, we blame all of our problems on foreigners, and now there is a growing campaign against Trans people, it’s only a matter of time before other minorities are targeted the same way.

I think you’re painting an awfully bleak picture personally mate. I’m all for immigration, immigrants play a vital role in our economy and it makes the country more diverse, but it does come with its problems, it doesn’t make you a bigot if you want to have a debate about the downsides of immigration. There will always be idiots unfortunately, just like there will always be crime. It’s not mission accomplished, but I truly believe the world is a more accepting, tolerant place than it was even 30 years. That doesn’t mean progress is a straight line, there are blips.

I disagree completely that there is a campaign against trans people. Most people I know think they should have rights like anyone else, but don’t think they should be allowed to compete against biological women. I think that’s sensible personally. Let them have their own category in sport. People are also uncomfortable about sharing spaces with them in hospitals, toilets, prisons etc. Can’t say it’s something that affects my life all that much, but I can see why people want to debate it.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Maybe, but he’s English right, this is the one he (and us), are responsible for.

And probably where he has most influence.

He’d have more of a point if England was as bigoted as the countries in the commonwealth but he has been allowed to live a happy life and earn a healthy living, he can be open about his sexual preferences which he couldn’t do in other countries. I don’t doubt he still gets targeted in this country and that’s also wrong but you can’t walk into a room and see an elephant and a mouse and not know which one is bigger.

 

[Baleforce]

He’d have more of a point if England was as bigoted as the countries in the commonwealth but he has been allowed to live a happy life and earn a healthy living, he can be open about his sexual preferences which he couldn’t do in other countries. I don’t doubt he still gets targeted in this country and that’s also wrong but you can’t walk into a room and see an elephant and a mouse and not know which one is bigger.

bigger doesn’t necessarily mean more dangerous

 

[Jurgen the German]

bigger doesn’t necessarily mean more dangerous

Maybe it’s just me, but I’m glad I live in a country where people have rights and aren’t discriminated against by law. A lot of countries have a sorry history of colonialism, but isn’t it also important that we recognise it was wrong and we don’t do it anymore?

 

[Baleforce]

Maybe it’s just me, but I’m glad I live in a country where people have rights and aren’t discriminated against by law. A lot of countries have a sorry history of colonialism, but isn’t it also important that we recognise it was wrong and we don’t do it anymore?

that would be great, tell it to those people our government are trying to send to Rwanda

the same government trying to make protest and criticism of the country a criminal offence

not doing it anymore is the absolute bare minimum, we don’t get a cookie for that

 

[Jurgen the German]

that would be great, tell it to those people our government are trying to send to Rwanda

the same government trying to make protest and criticism of the country a criminal offence

not doing it anymore is the absolute bare minimum, we don’t get a cookie for that

We’re not perfect and we have our own problems, but Tom Daley would run kicking and screaming back to London if he had to live in some of the commonwealth countries for 5 minutes due to their laws on homosexuality.

Philipp Lahm is boycotting the World Cup in Qatar due to their human rights record. That to me is far braver than what Tom Daley said.