1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Thanks, scara
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Please read this post: https://www.glory-glory.co.uk/community/threads/fund-raising-for-jeremy-yermiyahu.10542/
    Dismiss Notice

Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

Discussion in 'Randomination' started by SpurMeUp, 19 Feb 2019.

  1. Rorschach

    Rorschach Tony Galvin

    Joined:
    14 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    27,568
    Likes Received:
    16,995
    Location:
    ...here
    I stand corrected.
     
    Mikey10 likes this.
  2. Gutter Boy

    Gutter Boy Tim Sherwood

    Joined:
    15 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    17,329
    Likes Received:
    6,759
    Work subscription. But use sci-hub, you can get most paywalled academic articles through there
     
  3. Gutter Boy

    Gutter Boy Tim Sherwood

    Joined:
    15 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    17,329
    Likes Received:
    6,759
    Self sufficiency in energy and food, and simpler/localised supply chains are the future
     
  4. Gutter Boy

    Gutter Boy Tim Sherwood

    Joined:
    15 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    17,329
    Likes Received:
    6,759
    Our population will decline gradually without mass economic migration (due to first world birth rates), but it will have the same effect as those big traumas - higher wages and better quality of life, as labour (small l) gains more power in relation to employers
     
  5. scaramanga

    scaramanga Ricky Villa Staff Member

    Joined:
    13 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    31,797
    Likes Received:
    18,644
    Why won't those employers automate?

    Or spend similar amounts of money lobbying the govt to remove labour restrictions that are economically generations out of date.
     
  6. Gutter Boy

    Gutter Boy Tim Sherwood

    Joined:
    15 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    17,329
    Likes Received:
    6,759
    Rorschach likes this.
  7. Gutter Boy

    Gutter Boy Tim Sherwood

    Joined:
    15 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    17,329
    Likes Received:
    6,759
    It depends how much the people realise their new-found power. And how much the economy keeps moving to being more of a closed system
     
  8. scaramanga

    scaramanga Ricky Villa Staff Member

    Joined:
    13 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    31,797
    Likes Received:
    18,644
    What power? As employees their power is to go and get another job - not really a power if there's a robot doing their job.

    They have some power as consumers - they could form some kind of Luddite/Amish group and only purchase from businesses that make entirely by hand. Consumers have repeatedly shown that cost/convenience trumps morals though - goods from China being the perfect example.
     
  9. Gutter Boy

    Gutter Boy Tim Sherwood

    Joined:
    15 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    17,329
    Likes Received:
    6,759
    Especially with an environmental impetus, I think there's a growing realisation that localism benefits everyone (apart from the super rich). So I'd see a gradual switch to using smaller and more local companies who have decent working conditions and practice fair trade. Distance from point of production to point of consumption could become the new 'carbon footprint', or even a measure to tax against.
     
    Danishfurniturelover likes this.
  10. Danishfurniturelover

    Danishfurniturelover the prettiest spice girl

    Joined:
    15 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    18,424
    Likes Received:
    10,419
    Location:
    RIP. Coronavirus 2020
  11. Danishfurniturelover

    Danishfurniturelover the prettiest spice girl

    Joined:
    15 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    18,424
    Likes Received:
    10,419
    Location:
    RIP. Coronavirus 2020
    I do not agree with all your views but I agree with that post completely.
     
  12. SpurMeUp

    SpurMeUp Dimitar Berbatov

    Joined:
    5 Feb 2012
    Messages:
    15,462
    Likes Received:
    7,433
    Why are buying intensively farmed beef from Australia undercutting our local British farmers?
     
  13. scaramanga

    scaramanga Ricky Villa Staff Member

    Joined:
    13 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    31,797
    Likes Received:
    18,644
    So the climate fudgewits have decided to stop dragging everyone else down to their level and clear the roads a day after the public physically removed them.

    Looks like we have a plan of action next time they try this brick (probably not until the weather warms up again).
     
  14. scaramanga

    scaramanga Ricky Villa Staff Member

    Joined:
    13 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    31,797
    Likes Received:
    18,644
    Because it's cheaper. Same reason we buy from China.
     
    monkeybarry likes this.
  15. scaramanga

    scaramanga Ricky Villa Staff Member

    Joined:
    13 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    31,797
    Likes Received:
    18,644
    So your answer is to reverse decades of advancement?

    Doesn't sound like much of a plan to me.
     
  16. AuroRaman

    AuroRaman Jermaine Jenas

    Joined:
    27 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    4,914
    Likes Received:
    3,184
    They’ve really fudged it by pressing on with blockades after the initial action did what was desired, which was to gain awareness in the media and potentially get traction and sympathy for their cause. The whole point of non-violent direct action is to make a statement and start a conversation. It was incredibly stupid to keep going and rapidly lost any public support.

    I checked out their website after the first blockade and it seems their intentions are honourable (I haven’t bothered delving any deeper). Ruined it by alienating the very people they want to get behind them, the general public. Much like when XR started getting a groundswell of public support then fudged it by holding up a morning rush hour tube train.
     
    Gutter Boy and scaramanga like this.
  17. scaramanga

    scaramanga Ricky Villa Staff Member

    Joined:
    13 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    31,797
    Likes Received:
    18,644
    Quite.

    Protests that get attention work (I suggest bringing a lot of pretty women who don't wear much as it will always make the press). Protests that get in the way of people going about their lives will always end up with the cause worse off than before they started.

    It does seem a strange hill to die on though. Of all the climate protection measures, I thought the UK was doing reasonably well at insulating homes. The govt has been spaffing our money all over the place for it.
     
    AuroRaman likes this.
  18. monkeybarry

    monkeybarry Pedro Mendes

    Joined:
    14 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    9,225
    Likes Received:
    5,338
    Location:
    Norwich
    I agree with the principal, but I don't think it'll transfer into consumer behaviour in meaningful numbers. Unless Amazon becomes localised - which removes all of their business model other than delivery
     
  19. Lilbaz

    Lilbaz Neil Ruddock

    Joined:
    3 May 2021
    Messages:
    1,893
    Likes Received:
    1,514
    Not everything needs to be made here, but certain things should. Ppe, vital medicines, food, energy... france has just threatened to shut off power to the uk and jersey. We cannot be at the mercy of the good will of foreign governments. Whatever agreements we have in place last as long as those countries deem it in their interest. If they do not (as with covid) those agreements are torn up.

    As better automation come in then we will not have to rely on cheap labour in china or india, to manufacture our goods. We can build up our own manufacturing capabilities.
     
  20. Rorschach

    Rorschach Tony Galvin

    Joined:
    14 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    27,568
    Likes Received:
    16,995
    Location:
    ...here
    Thanks. That is interesting but it really does not tell the full story and it seeks to draw some broad conclusions from statistics that can be interpreted somewhat differently. That the demand for labor increased when millions died or left is not an indication of good times all around. The dire social conditions and superseding political turmoil that came after the famine is a historical reality. Now that is not to say that things did not improve from what was a very low base (i.e. a famine), and so care must be taken generalising from such an extreme. Farm wages increasing from fudge all is obviously to be welcomed but sunlit uplands it was not.

    On your more general point that labour shortages push up wages and conditions, well yes obviously they do. And if the pandemic has shown one thing it is which jobs are absolute flimflam, and would not be missed if they disappeared overnight, and which are truly crucial.
     
    Last edited: 15 Oct 2021

Share This Page