Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

[Diamond Lights]

they were told years ago it was needed, what have they done about it, fudge all

that's because it's impossible. You can't solve workforce issues by just going "we'll find someone in UK to do it".

you ever gone to a bar/club? who cleans the toilets? because i can tell you now, it aint british folk. people can sit there and go "well just train more" etc but the fact of the matter is, many jobs require immigration because some will do any job available whereas domestic populations will not.

I'm enjoying this though. Now them foreign lot aren't "stealing our jobs" let's see that great British spirit come together to drive HGVs and clean toilets.

To finish. We're now at the point where we need to call the Army in, and Brexit voters are acting as if this is entirely normal.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Sorry, Google couldn't translate that to English. Are you posting tinkled again?

Nope not drunk, got the wife and son to read it and apart from the odd spelling mistake it is easy what I was saying.

The road haulage association were just trying to keep their profits high with low wages.

Guess on that you would be on their side. I am on the side of the working class.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

that's because it's impossible. You can't solve workforce issues by just going "we'll find someone in UK to do it".

you ever gone to a bar/club? who cleans the toilets? because i can tell you now, it aint british folk. people can sit there and go "well just train more" etc but the fact of the matter is, many jobs require immigration because some will do any job available whereas domestic populations will not.

I'm enjoying this though. Now them foreign lot aren't "stealing our jobs" let's see that great British spirit come together to drive HGVs and clean toilets.

To finish. We're now at the point where we need to call the Army in, and Brexit voters are acting as if this is entirely normal.

They had to call in the army to do security at the London Olympics and that was before brexit. So I am not sure your point.

On immigration I personally have always said that you cut benefits and unemployment allowance and then you would get bits doing the job. Never understood this whole they do the jobs the bits don't want to do.

I never wanted to be a labourer on a building site but I did it. Worked bar in the evenings for a few years as well. When I wanted out I trained up as a locksmith.

My story should be the story of the English working class. Start out in crap jobs and work up. I am now 56 and live in a 800 grand house no mortgage and 2 flats in worthing with no mortgages. I did that without taking a penny from anyone, if I can, literally any able bored person can.

People need to stop making excuses for the layabouts.

This country has always had immigration and always should. I think it is the numbers which are the issue which is why people in low skilled jobs have had so few wage rises. People relied on low paid staff so they could have cheap goods and services. Now all you middle class ponces will have to pay more. Haha

Nope not drunk, got the wife and son to read it and apart from the odd spelling mistake it is easy what I was saying.

The road haulage association were just trying to keep their profits high with low wages.

Guess on that you would be on their side. I am on the side of the working class.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Fair play for pushing the other side of things - and there is a valid other side. Brexit is too complex to be completely black or white. As you know on balance I was pro remain but valid arguments for both sides can be made.

If Brexit was done well, our government would agile training up HGV drivers and lowering unemployment, maybe even exporting drivers. But we lack agility in government. Leaving the EU didn’t change that. China is far more agile as you don’t need to run everything past parliament and the press. But you’d hope we could became more effective, able to be light on our feet and utilise our independence from the EU. Im sure there will be some Brexit wins along the way once the fire fighting stops.

As with football teams, they are not built in a day. Nuno needs to be given time to rebuild. And although Brexit makes little sense for trade or cooperation, there are some potential benefits and we have to let things settle before we can achieve them. But the biggest wins I think would come from shaking up our own government structures and the civil service. There are many many good people and things in these structures but also so much that is stale. The culture and ineffective practices of much of our Uk government needs a shake up, so that we can be more agile and achieve some of the sentiments of Brexit. I’ve always been a fan of brexits overarching goals and beliefs - we should take pride in the nation and wish for it to be self determined and better than it is today. Personally I would have strived for that while being in the EU but now we have a clean break, can we actually do something with it?

Sadly, I doubt it. The government structures in England are deep rooted. And although the government of the day have a massive majority they have been knocked sideways by covid and don’t have the vision to shake things up. Cummings had some ideas but was better at exciting people than delivering. Boris without a visionary sidekick can only follow the prevailing wind.

Brexit will never be a success, the are to many anti brexit people in positions of power such as the road haulage association. They will never allow it to be a success, much like civil servants who were part of the negotiations to leave the EU who tried to scupper the deals all the time.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

I think the shortages in the haulage industry is not down to class and snobbery , it’s always been a relatively well paid job, as with other transport jobs such as train and tube drivers. It’s more to do with it not being a particularly nice job. Long lonely hours, away from your family and not particularly great working conditions. From a consumer point of view if you keep putting up wages of drivers, that’ll cut the profit margins of companies unless they put up the price of goods they are hauling. Society has got used to relatively low prices so companies don’t want to put prices up.. it’s simple economics and not snobbery that is going on here.

I agree to a degree, well until you start reading the road haulage association and start finding out about them.

People paying more so that staff can be paid more is fine by me.

 

[scaramanga]

Nope not drunk, got the wife and son to read it and apart from the odd spelling mistake it is easy what I was saying.

The road haulage association were just trying to keep their profits high with low wages.

Guess on that you would be on their side. I am on the side of the working class.

I'm not on anyone's side, neither is the market.

Driving is a fairly low skill, low education role. If demand and supply are matched, it will be fairly low paid. It's ridiculously highly paid at the moment because of an imbalance caused by a govt that wouldn't stay in its box. The high wages and comparatively low entry barriers will flood the market with drivers and the prices will correct themselves.

 

[scaramanga]

Some unambiguously good news that even the most swivel-eyed of remainders would agree about:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-58711230

 

[Robspur12]

On immigration I personally have always said that you cut benefits and unemployment allowance and then you would get bits doing the job. Never understood this whole they do the jobs the bits don't want to do.

I never wanted to be a labourer on a building site but I did it. Worked bar in the evenings for a few years as well. When I wanted out I trained up as a locksmith.

The benefits thing always seems appealing doesn't it?

Then you realise 2/3 of benefit claimants are of state pension age. Of the 280 000 claiming income support 42% are carers and the other 57% are single parents so not many HGV drivers there. There are some 250000 claiming job seekers allowance (that number is falling). Some of these no doubt will be lazy and work shy ( btw I am sure you are aware there are plenty of work shy people IN work.) But many simply do not have the capacity to do the kind of jobs where we have skills shortages.

So there isn't even this huge pool of benefit claimants that can be coralled into work and certainly not quickly or effective enough. Which is why immigration fills the gaps.

 

[Craig_J]

Some unambiguously good news that even the most swivel-eyed of remainders would agree about:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-58711230

Shame there will be no one to pick or deliver them hey!

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

The benefits thing always seems appealing doesn't it?

Then you realise 2/3 of benefit claimants are of state pension age. Of the 280 000 claiming income support 42% are carers and the other 57% are single parents so not many HGV drivers there. There are some 250000 claiming job seekers allowance (that number is falling). Some of these no doubt will be lazy and work shy ( btw I am sure you are aware there are plenty of work shy people IN work.) But many simply do not have the capacity to do the kind of jobs where we have skills shortages.

So there isn't even this huge pool of benefit claimants that can be coralled into work and certainly not quickly or effective enough. Which is why immigration fills the gaps.

Why don't people have the capacity to do the job if the are so low skilled. If they are not low skilled pay them more. Must be more fun going out driving then wiping someone's botty.

If people working are not earning enough then they should do more hours or retrain. If I could do it literally anyone can. A nation of layabout scroungers,some may have voted brexit for the wrong reasons (not liking foreigners) but the overwhelming right occurrence would be to get rid of all in work benefits, get rid of child tax benefits( you spunk up a woman you pay for the kid she sh*ts out) and jobseekers allowance is your rent paid and food coupons.

No free rides anymore. If the are still jobs available after that bring in whoever you like.


My favoured option would actually be normal levels of immigration we have at the moment as all the ones I have met have been great but get rid of the benefit scum from this country.


Should keep you hippy liberal want to teach the world to sing people happy.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

They had to call in the army to do security at the London Olympics and that was before brexit. So I am not sure your point.

On immigration I personally have always said that you cut benefits and unemployment allowance and then you would get bits doing the job. Never understood this whole they do the jobs the bits don't want to do.

I never wanted to be a labourer on a building site but I did it. Worked bar in the evenings for a few years as well. When I wanted out I trained up as a locksmith.

My story should be the story of the English working class. Start out in crap jobs and work up. I am now 56 and live in a 800 grand house no mortgage and 2 flats in worthing with no mortgages. I did that without taking a penny from anyone, if I can, literally any able bored person can.

People need to stop making excuses for the layabouts.

This country has always had immigration and always should. I think it is the numbers which are the issue which is why people in low skilled jobs have had so few wage rises. People relied on low paid staff so they could have cheap goods and services. Now all you middle class ponces will have to pay more. Haha

Let's be honest, you did take money from a mortgage company and geared yourself up and benefitted from our ridiculous property market (and easy lending). Most of your wealth (and paper wealth) came from capital appreciation of an asset, an asset that appeared to be on helium.. Which is more than likely a luck of timing thing. Very little 'heavy lifting' in reality. Younger generations are miles from 'lucking' into this situation (it's miles out of reach) and could even be anything from accepting to depressed about that reality.

Not having a go. You're not alone.

 

[Robspur12]

Why don't people have the capacity to do the job if the are so low skilled. If they are not low skilled pay them more. Must be more fun going out driving then wiping someone's botty.

If people working are not earning enough then they should do more hours or retrain. If I could do it literally anyone can. A nation of layabout scroungers,some may have voted brexit for the wrong reasons (not liking foreigners) but the overwhelming right occurrence would be to get rid of all in work benefits, get rid of child tax benefits( you spunk up a woman you pay for the kid she sh*ts out) and jobseekers allowance is your rent paid and food coupons.

No free rides anymore. If the are still jobs available after that bring in whoever you like.


My favoured option would actually be normal levels of immigration we have at the moment as all the ones I have met have been great but get rid of the benefit scum from this country.


Should keep you hippy liberal want to teach the world to sing people happy.

Interesting pov. Have you ever worked in a care job on minimum wage? Or perhaps a teaching assistant job on minimum wage? Both essential jobs both poorly paid. Someone has to do them to keep society functioning. You know so we can live our lives the way we want to. There are loads of jobs like that which are a case of "someone's got to do them" and society would be fudged if everyone working in those kinds of jobs, retrained to better paid jobs. Get rid of benefits? sounds good in principle How do those on low wages in essential jobs afford rent, transport or child care. And I mean a realistic solution to their issues not just what we would like to happen. Solutions always sound easy. Some are most are complex otherwise successive governments liberal or not would have implemented them.

Whenever I think about the benefits debate, I'm reminded of when I was a police officer interviewing this Argentinian lad about a rather nasty incident he had witnessed. There had been a spate of stabbings where he lived in London, so I asked him why the hell have you left Argentina to come to London. He replied "In my home town people will kill you for your shoes!". And I thought to myself at least in this country for all its imperfections we have a system that stops people falling into such abject poverty that they will kill you for your clothes or food.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Let's be honest, you did take money from a mortgage company and geared yourself up and benefitted from our ridiculous property market (and easy lending). Most of your wealth (and paper wealth) came from capital appreciation of an asset, an asset that appeared to be on helium.. Which is more than likely a luck of timing thing. Very little 'heavy lifting' in reality. Younger generations are miles from 'lucking' into this situation (it's miles out of reach) and could even be anything from accepting to depressed about that reality.

Not having a go. You're not alone.

Rubbish I put new bathrooms and a lick of paint to every property I flipped and have never once ordered avocado on toast. Also if brown had not stolen my pension I would not have had to go down the property route.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Interesting pov. Have you ever worked in a care job on minimum wage? Or perhaps a teaching assistant job on minimum wage? Both essential jobs both poorly paid. Someone has to do them to keep society functioning. You know so we can live our lives the way we want to. There are loads of jobs like that which are a case of "someone's got to do them" and society would be fudged if everyone working in those kinds of jobs, retrained to better paid jobs. Get rid of benefits? sounds good in principle How do those on low wages in essential jobs afford rent, transport or child care. And I mean a realistic solution to their issues not just what we would like to happen. Solutions always sound easy. Some are most are complex otherwise successive governments liberal or not would have implemented them.

Whenever I think about the benefits debate, I'm reminded of when I was a police officer interviewing this Argentinian lad about a rather nasty incident he had witnessed. There had been a spate of stabbings where he lived in London, so I asked him why the hell have you left Argentina to come to London. He replied "In my home town people will kill you for your shoes!". And I thought to myself at least in this country for all its imperfections we have a system that stops people falling into such abject poverty that they will kill you for your clothes or food.

When I started out the was no such thing as minimum wage, but I was labouring by day and worked on the bar in the evening at weekends to get my first deposit together.

As for people not killing each other for shoes, they quite literally do that very thing in London. Though not a frequent occurrence and I doubt the sort that do it would want mine.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Also low skilled/paid people do not deserve children. I mean what sort of children would they could they have?

Robots and the automation of the workforce will make most of those jobs obsolete before long. The rest can be done by immigrants while waiting for settled status.

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

If decent wages were paid for jobs and people could live independently on them, then we wouldn't need so much welfare, but of course greedy clams want to pay minimally to get their grubby hands on every penny of profit.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

If decent wages were paid for jobs and people could live independently on them, then we wouldn't need so much welfare, but of course greedy clams want to pay minimally to get their grubby hands on every penny of profit.

It is why I am all for the working class getting a pay rise.

 

[scaramanga]

If decent wages were paid for jobs and people could live independently on them, then we wouldn't need so much welfare, but of course greedy clams want to pay minimally to get their grubby hands on every penny of profit.

So your solution is to raise prices whereby we all have the same spending power we do now but the numbers are bigger so the fiscally incompetent fell better?

 

[SpurMeUp]

Shame there will be no one to pick or deliver them hey!

Add no fuel to transport them What is going on? The problems become cyclical. As the UK struggles, the value of the pound drops, making petrol and everything else we import more expensive.

The amount of extra fuel that is being burnt in traffic jams where there are queues outside petrol stations blocking roads, and with people driving around trying to fill up, must be hugely wasteful. So much for sending in the army to address - that was the plan a few days back wasn't it? Doesn't seem to have achieved a thing. What a shambles the UK must look since Brexit.

 

[StephenH]