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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

Danishfurniturelover said:
It is probably because they are so riled up at what has happened out there they unable to think clearly, use poor phrases. It often happens with all sorts of people in all sorts of situations that they get so upset they say offensive and insulting things.

Why do you think they are driving up to London, to protest at disproportionate violence and people getting forced from their homes.
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To answer your question, I think it's to intimidate the Jewish people that live in these areas...
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
He was constant in his criticism of the UK for wanting to leave and at the beginning when May was trying to negotiate a deal claiming she was trying to undermine the founding principles of the EU by limiting freedom of movement.

His views are his and I will respect anyone who has views if they set out the reasons for having them.

But accusing the UK of undermining the founding principles of the EU by seeking curbs on migration means that he now has to stand on a francexit stance shirley?
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There clearly is a desire to do more to control immigration in the EU. When posters here flagged up controlling immigration as a reason for leaving the EU, I pointed out that the UK should harness some support for reform of free movement within the EU and drive change. Not to mention we could have done a lot more ourselves anyway: register EU immigrants and send them back if not working after a couple of months.

He was doing a job - negotiating a deal for 27 nations. He did a great job for the EU and we didn't get a deal for our financial services or much for our fisherman and farmers. We still don't impose any checks on imports while our exporters have to incur greater costs exporting.

Ultimately the immigration thing is used by politicians to get cheap votes. It was during Brexit and it is being used now by Barnier.
 
SpurMeUp said:
There clearly is a desire to do more to control immigration in the EU. When posters here flagged up controlling immigration as a reason for leaving the EU, I pointed out that the UK should harness some support for reform of free movement within the EU and drive change. Not to mention we could have done a lot more ourselves anyway: register EU immigrants and send them back if not working after a couple of months.

He was doing a job - negotiating a deal for 27 nations. He did a great job for the EU and we didn't get a deal for our financial services or much for our fisherman and farmers. We still don't impose any checks on imports while our exporters have to incur greater costs exporting.

Ultimately the immigration thing is used by politicians to get cheap votes. It was during Brexit and it is being used now by Barnier.
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I love reading your posts and even if I don't agree with them I find them insightful.

But he said during the withdrawal that we were going against the founding principles of the EU. Now he wants to do the same, personally I find that pretty fcuking funny and sums up what I think of politicians.

I agree the were options open to us with regards immigration while in the EU. But anyone who voted out for those reasons is a chav anyway.

Please excuse my spelling tonight but I have had half a bottle of port from laithwaites and I am drunk.
 
Wow all this Palestine v Israel stuff is kicking off nuts in London, coming back from work and it was chaos.

TBH at least people can't claim that there is a an oppression of free speech in the UK, some of the stuff I heard was very free and political charged bias haha.
 
dawaxman said:
To answer your question, I think it's to intimidate the Jewish people that live in these areas...
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Yeah probably and the is an unsavoury element to it that I don't like. I just don't think Israel behaves well towards pushing people out of their homes.

I never really understood anti Jewish sentiments and was along with flip flopping on the EU why I did not vote for Corbyn.
 
Grays_1890 said:
Wow all this Palestine v Israel stuff is kicking off nuts in London, coming back from work and it was chaos.

TBH at least people can't claim that there is a an oppression of free speech in the UK, some of the stuff I heard was very free and political charged bias haha.
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Where was it?
 
I got caught in a rolling road block on the M1. It only delayed me 10-15 minutes, but the swerving cars and standing out of sunroofs at high speed wasn't very cool

I think it's a bit of a tightrope - absolutely raise the visibility of the cause. But don't anatagonise a population that is generally sympathetic to your cause (I think the vast majority of the UK is pro a Palestinian state on 1967 borders, but will recoil completely at the first sign of anything remotely looking anti-semitism)
 
Diamond Lights said:
Another one to add to the list of British involvement elsewhere in the world completely fudging things up for future generations...
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Was having this conversation with a young lad at work who did not know it was the British who were behind the creation of Israel.

Really need to read up on why they thought that was a good idea.
 
Can I ask, of the people who are quite outspoken in the condemnation of Israels actions at the moment, do you agree with the creation of Israel in 1948? Or do you oppose it? Do you understand why it was formed? Do you know which countries voted against it and what some of them did when it eventually came into being?

Do you know what hamas have been doing in Israel for the last 16 years (for example)?

Do you genuinely think that Israels military are purposely targeting innocent civilians? Or do you think that, maybe, hamas are being clever in putting the civilians they're supposedly "with" in the line of fire on purpose?

How do you suggest Israel should handle the situation instead of what they're currently doing?

I'm asking all of the above with genuine interest...I hear a lot of condemnation but not a lot of conversation about how else they could handle the situation
 
This is an interesting analysis of why the constant death spiral serves both sides in these hostilities and the suggestion that the scuppering of a government of national unity might have been the real target this time.

For Trump, Hamas and Bibi, It Is Always Jan. 6
There are many ways to understand what is happening today between Hamas and Prime Minister Bibi Netanyahu of Israel, but I prefer to think about it like this: They are each having their own Jan. 6 moment.

Just as a mob was unleashed by President Donald Trump to ransack our Capitol on Jan. 6 in a last-ditch effort to overturn the election results and prevent a healing unifier from becoming president, so Bibi and Hamas each exploited or nurtured their own mobs to prevent an unprecedented national unity government from emerging in Israel — a cabinet that for the first time would have included Israeli Jews and Israeli Arab Muslims together.

Like Trump, both Bibi and Hamas have kept power by inspiring and riding waves of hostility to “the other.” They turn to this tactic anytime they are in political trouble. Indeed, they each have been the other’s most valuable partner in that tactic ever since Netanyahu was first elected prime minister in 1996 — on the back of a wave of Hamas suicide bombings.

No, Hamas and Bibi don’t talk. They don’t need to. They each understand what the other needs to stay in power and consciously or unconsciously behave in ways to ensure that they deliver it.

.........
In the wake of Israel’s fourth election, and Netanyahu’s failure to form a government, an unprecedented national unity coalition was taking shape in Israel — under the leadership of the secular-centrist Yair Lapid and the religious-rightist Naftali Bennett. They were on the verge of forging a cabinet that would include both Israeli Jews and, for the first time ever, an Israeli Arab Islamist party.
......
More here...
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/16/...l?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage
 
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dawaxman said:
They weren't calling someone arsehole, they were shouting fudge the Jews, is that not antisemitic?...
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I'm talking more generally.
The shouting from the cars yesterday was juvenile and blown out of all proportion. Boris got involved, why?
The world will a better place when both sides finish each other off. The appeasement of Israel by the west is for me personally offensive.
 
StephenH said:
I'm talking more generally.
The shouting from the cars yesterday was juvenile and blown out of all proportion. Boris got involved, why?
The world will a better place when both sides finish each other off. The appeasement of Israel by the west is for me personally offensive.
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??
 
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