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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

scaramanga said:
Starmer's biggest test so far, and probably the biggest he will on the way to No10.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54976558

If he hopes to stand any chance of winning the centre ground, he has to deal with this quickly and decisively.
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It looks like Starmer will not allow him to return as a Labour MP, is that just keeping him at arm's length or a decisive put down?

Whichever, it certainly has the potential to cause a split in the party BUT Starmer is on the safe ground here, he needs to pull the party in the only direction it can go to end up in No.10. Corbyn is a weasel.

Labour can be so self destructive.
 
Grays_1890 said:
I still find it amazing how many go out their way to argue that Corbyn is not an Anti Semitic a-hole
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My friend Anita is a an out worker for her synagogue always says this is driven by those who dislike his pro-Palestinian stance and is politically motivated from within the rightwing opposition and some help from Isreal on social media.
Jezza is too leftwing, bonkers and thus thankfully unelectable, so not for me. I do though doubt some of the antisimetic claims.
 
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ricky2tricky4city said:
It looks like Starmer will not allow him to return as a Labour MP, is that just keeping him at arm's length or a decisive put down?

Whichever, it certainly has the potential to cause a split in the party BUT Starmer is on the safe ground here, he needs to pull the party in the only direction it can go to end up in No.10. Corbyn is a weasel.

Labour can be so self destructive.
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I think he's done as well as he could with the hand he was dealt.

He can't step into the disciplinary process but he can choose the types he wants to represent his party.
 
scaramanga said:
I think he's done as well as he could with the hand he was dealt.

He can't step into the disciplinary process but he can choose the types he wants to represent his party.
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I was thinking about his strategy here and I believe it is the pragmatic approach as the left need the Tories out more than they need Jezza/Far left ideology. He knows what he is doing to enable him to get in to power.
 
LutonSpurs said:
I was thinking about his strategy here and I believe it is the pragmatic approach as the left need the Tories out more than they need Jezza/Far left ideology. He knows what he is doing to enable him to get in to power.
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Momentum will bury that party. Far better to take a strong stride to the centre and let them either wither away or splinter off then wither away.
 
scaramanga said:
Momentum will bury that party. Far better to take a strong stride to the centre and let them either wither away or splinter off then wither away.
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Momentum have numbers, I think Keir needs to engage them and bring them along on the oust the Tories and then let's do some real left wing stuff. If they cannot see that being sensible then they will be the cause of the death of the Labour.
 
LutonSpurs said:
Momentum have numbers, I think Keir needs to engage them and bring them along on the oust the Tories and then let's do some real left wing stuff. If they cannot see that being sensible then they will be the cause of the death of the Labour.
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Left wing is well outside this country's Overton Window.

New Labour are the left bound and the right is somewhere between the current govt and UKIP.

Momentum's platform no longer exists as an electable stance in UK politics.
 
StephenH said:
My friend Anita is a an out worker for her synagogue always says this is driven by those who dislike his pro-Palestinian stance and is politically motivated from within the rightwing opposition and some help from Isreal on social media.
Jezza is too leftwing, bonkers and thus thankfully unelectable, so not for me. I do though doubt some of the antisimetic claims.
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If he is not AntiSemitic thats fine, I think he is, I think there is too much and at too much volume for him not to be even if its passive.

But lets say for a minute he is not, his handling of the Anti Semitism crisis and claims in the party when he was leader was shocking at best. Just point blankly refusing to even acknowledge there might be an issue and having to be dragged kicking and screaming into a review was shocking. His lack of action when his own MPs were being abused by his supporters online was also a missed opportunity for me to put the issues to bed.
 
scaramanga said:
Left wing is well outside this country's Overton Window.

New Labour are the left bound and the right is somewhere between the current govt and UKIP.

Momentum's platform no longer exists as an electable stance in UK politics.
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He nearly won in 2015 so I don't think the left is dead. But they do need to move on from project Corbyn and find a way to connect to the working classes again.
 
LutonSpurs said:
He nearly won in 2015 so I don't think the left is dead. But they do need to move on from project Corbyn and find a way to connect to the working classes again.
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Not really.


We come out of the EU and the will be plenty in the Midlands and the North who will go back to labour. All Starmer has to do to win is not punch a baby or say the N word.

Apart from the whole Arsenal thing I quite like him. But I have been wrong before.
 
LutonSpurs said:
He nearly won in 2015 so I don't think the left is dead. But they do need to move on from project Corbyn and find a way to connect to the working classes again.
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Absolutely.
As we discussed, whether we like it or not, the old days of left Labour are over in the current climate. There can still be many great socialist principles, but they need to dovetail with the reality of the modern economic world. There is a way. Hope they can find it.
 
Grays_1890 said:
If he is not AntiSemitic thats fine, I think he is, I think there is too much and at too much volume for him not to be even if its passive.

But lets say for a minute he is not, his handling of the Anti Semitism crisis and claims in the party when he was leader was shocking at best. Just point blankly refusing to even acknowledge there might be an issue and having to be dragged kicking and screaming into a review was shocking. His lack of action when his own MPs were being abused by his supporters online was also a missed opportunity for me to put the issues to bed.
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He is anti-Isreal!
Welcome to the sad world of political expediency. The abusers and abused are well versed in the dark arts of using these situation.
 
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StephenH said:
He is anti-Isreal!
Welcome to the sad world of political expediency. The abusers and abused are well versed in the dark arts using the situation.
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I think he's borderline between being anti-Israel and anti-Semitic.

Even if we're generous and land in his side, he was still happy to accept anti-Semitism in his party.
 
He's had a number done on him. He was an easy target. Due to his stand on Palestine.
Those who on his side who criticised those having a go at Corbyns Palistion stance are labelled ani Semitic.
 
thfcsteff said:
Absolutely.
As we discussed, whether we like it or not, the old days of left Labour are over in the current climate. There can still be many great socialist principles, but they need to dovetail with the reality of the modern economic world. There is a way. Hope they can find it.
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They will find it now they don’t have an extremist in charge
 
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