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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

SpurMeUp said:
We didn't want any of those deals. We wanted ++

Thank goodness we're in capable hands. People who clearly understood all this. People who foresaw this happening. :rolleyes:
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In the EU's own words, Canada is not available to us. Don't you read the news?
 
scaramanga said:
In the EU's own words, Canada is not available to us. Don't you read the news?
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The Canadian agreement doesn't cover financial services. Or any services. And we're a service economy.

Canadas agreement wouldn't cover the things the EU is concerned about either - us undercutting EU nations or subsidising our businesses to undercut them. We're 50 miles from the EU rather than thousands of miles as with Canada so it makes sense for the EU to add in these other demands. For us Canada's agreement wouldn't transpose onto the UK either.

At least we can agree on one thing now! This is not simple and easy. You probably knew that all along?
 
LutonSpurs said:
Is it fair to say that you think the GFA is a burden upon the union?
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It's not something I give too much of a fudge about TBH.

What I do know is that the EU wants to be very protectionist about its trade. I also believe that (given their penchant for an ever closer union) a border between ROI and the EU would be more damaging to their political aims than one between NI and GB would be. Especially as the govt no longer needs the votes of those weirdos in the DUP.

So that leaves us in a situation of disparity as to how much a lack of agreement over the border will effect us. That means there is leverage, which gives us an advantage in negotiations. Not using that leverage would be insane.
 
SpurMeUp said:
The Canadian agreement doesn't cover financial services. Or any services. And we're a service economy.

Canadas agreement wouldn't cover the things the EU is concerned about either - us undercutting EU nations or subsidising our businesses to undercut them. We're 50 miles from the EU rather than thousands of miles as with Canada so it makes sense for the EU to add in these other demands. For us Canada's agreement wouldn't transpose onto the UK either.

At least we can agree on one thing now! This is not simple and easy. You probably knew that all along?
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Nothing is ever entirely simple.

But no deal is still the middle ground in terms of desirability between the best choice of a trade deal and the worst one of remaining.
 
scaramanga said:
Nothing is ever entirely simple.

But no deal is still the middle ground in terms of desirability between the best choice of a trade deal and the worst one of remaining.
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Put a name to each of these quotes:

"The free trade agreement that we will have to do with the European Union should be one of the easiest in human history"

"There is no plan for no deal because we are going to get a great deal"

"I never promised it would be a huge success"





Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
 
"The free trade agreement that we will have to do with the European Union should be one of the easiest in human history" Liam Fox, ironically Trade Secretary at the time.

"There is no plan for no deal because we are going to get a great deal" Bojo. Our Prime Minister incarnate! :)

"I never promised it would be a huge success" Nigel Farrage, paid a fortune to snigger and quaff wine as an EU MEP, no wonder he wants another referendum.

Did they willfully lie and mislead the public or where they genuinely incompetent?
 
SpurMeUp said:
"The free trade agreement that we will have to do with the European Union should be one of the easiest in human history" Liam Fox, ironically Trade Secretary at the time.

"There is no plan for no deal because we are going to get a great deal" Bojo. Our Prime Minister incarnate! :)

"I never promised it would be a huge success" Nigel Farrage, paid a fortune to snigger and quaff wine as an EU MEP, no wonder he wants another referendum.

Did they willfully lie and mislead the public or where they genuinely incompetent?
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I genuinely don't care.

The process is their problem. The outcome is what matters.
 
LutonSpurs said:
There is a cause for alarm, I am worried they are going to tank the economy as we are not going to be prepared for a no deal. Playing Russian roulette with the EU hasn't worked so far and I don't assume they will cave to these aggressive tactics by Brexit rude boys.
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I'm at the point now where i'm up for it. Let's just do the No Deal, if it all turns out fine and dandy i'll happily accept i was wrong. If it doesn't, we'll just blame foreigners and immigrants like normal and then vote the Tories in to fix the mess in 2024. YAY.
 
Rorschach said:
They are demanding change outside of the UK thankfully where politics is not tainted by Brexit. I don't know much about the UK greens but your FPTP system distorts the political landscape, so I would not be using recent elections in the UK as an indication of anything other than how easily a country can be duped.

Yes, I do understand people will only go so far in changing their lifestyle and that goes for everyone. Who wants to give up life's comforts, but it will be changed for them by circumstance in the not too distant future anyway. What is coming is not hyperbole.
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I think you'll find they are demanding change in the UK as well as other countries.

Regardless of FPTP they got a grand total of 2.7% at the last election despite the rise in prominence of extinction rebellion etc at the time so I don't think anyone is being duped nor is the country tainted - Brexit might be tedious now but it was obviously a debabe that needed to be had and if anything has engaged more people in poltics and was clearly more important to voters than climate change.

I didn't say climate change is hyperbole but some of the messaging from XR certainly is, surely you don't think billions are going to die (
) or that a free press provides less democracy or that bloackading tube trains running on electricity is a great idea?
 
P.D. said:
I think you'll find they are demanding change in the UK as well as other countries.

Regardless of FPTP they got a grand total of 2.7% at the last election despite the rise in prominence of extinction rebellion etc at the time so I don't think anyone is being duped nor is the country tainted - Brexit might be tedious now but it was obviously a debabe that needed to be had and if anything has engaged more people in poltics and was clearly more important to voters than climate change.

I didn't say climate change is hyperbole but some of the messaging from XR certainly is, surely you don't think billions are going to die (
) or that a free press provides less democracy or that bloackading tube trains running on electricity is a great idea?
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You're clearly mistaken.

This isn't about climate change, it's about being more angry on Instagram than everyone else.

With that in mind, they've clearly been very effective.
 
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P.D. said:
I think you'll find they are demanding change in the UK as well as other countries.

Regardless of FPTP they got a grand total of 2.7% at the last election despite the rise in prominence of extinction rebellion etc at the time so I don't think anyone is being duped nor is the country tainted - Brexit might be tedious now but it was obviously a debabe that needed to be had and if anything has engaged more people in poltics and was clearly more important to voters than climate change.

I didn't say climate change is hyperbole but some of the messaging from XR certainly is, surely you don't think billions are going to die (
) or that a free press provides less democracy or that bloackading tube trains running on electricity is a great idea?
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The green wave that swept over Europe did not hit the UK. Brexit has been all of UK politics for the last few years as this thread testifies to. So whether you think people are demanding change or not, it is not represented in UK politics to the same degree as anywhere else and you have admitted as much in your posts.


As mentioned a few times I know little to nothing about UK greens or the XR so I have no particular comment on them, other than they seem to shoot themselves in the foot a lot. Par for the course with UK politics it would seem.

And yes I believe millions (not billions) will die and many more will become climate refugees. The UN predicts 200million climate refugees on the move by 2050 if we don't drastically change course. Did you get to read the uninhabitable earth yet? That was you right?
 
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Rorschach said:
The green wave that swept over Europe did not hit the UK. Brexit has been all of UK politics for the last few years as this thread testifies to. So whether you think people are demanding change or not, it is not represented in UK politics to the same degree as anywhere else and you have pretty admitted as much in your posts.


As mentioned a few times I know little to nothing about UK greens or the XR so I have no particular comment on them, other than they seem to shoot themselves in the foot a lot. Par for the course with UK politics it would seem.

And yes I believe millions (not billions) will die and many more will become climate refugees. The UN predicts 200million climate refugees on the move by 2050 if we don't drastically change course. Did you get to read the uninhabitable earth yet? That was you right?
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Isn't reducing the population a fairly effective way of combating climate change?
 
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