Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

[Rorschach]

A very fair point, and yes, a worthy discussion for the future in it's own I'd agree.

I think, once again, I am guilty of not clearly articulating myself. The comment was meant specifically for forums such as this one, where I genuinely don't feel that my viewpoint is shaped by the "approval" (or not) of others contributing. So again, it was very specific to this type of medium.

On a wider point, I'd debate that we have 1000s of facts bombarding us. Indeed, I'd suggest that stripping that number down to the three or four which are at the core of most world events would be a great step forth.

That's fair.

The debate that happens on this forum, outside of football discussion, probably does not sway too many minds I would think, but it has some value IMO. It pushes alternative opinions into the information ecosystems we all inhabit in a less aggressive way (mostly). How we react to those alternative opinions, to consider them or discard them immediately is often based on past contributions, or in other words the trust gained over an extended period. That's how I view it anyway.

 

[Rorschach]

A very fair point, and yes, a worthy discussion for the future in it's own I'd agree.

I think, once again, I am guilty of not clearly articulating myself. The comment was meant specifically for forums such as this one, where I genuinely don't feel that my viewpoint is shaped by the "approval" (or not) of others contributing. So again, it was very specific to this type of medium.

On a wider point, I'd debate that we have 1000s of facts bombarding us. Indeed, I'd suggest that stripping that number down to the three or four which are at the core of most world events would be a great step forth.

This is going to be an ongoing problem. The historical arbiters of truth, science/academia/MSM, are no longer trusted equally by both sides, in the US in particular. And there are now clearly delineated sides. The venn diagram of shared opinions no longer overlaps and there is no gravity to pull them back together again. This is a problem of this age that I can't see a solution for.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

That's fair.

The debate that happens on this forum, outside of football discussion, probably does not sway too many minds I would think, but it has some value IMO. It pushes alternative opinions into the information ecosystems we all inhabit in a less aggressive way (mostly). How we react to those alternative opinions, to consider them or discard them immediately is often based on past contributions, or in other words the trust gained over an extended period. That's how I view it anyway.

The nice thing about this forum (and particularly random) is the subjects are literally that, from the fluffy to the deadly serious, BUT the most important thing is we are here because our common connection is we support the greatest football team in the world. So we are not here because of any of those subjects, (hopefully) free from confirmation bias, echo chambers etc....it's a side hustle really, a distraction from pulling our hair out about all things THFC. But Random IS great, the contribution IS great.

 

[SteveAWOL]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1294247375066849280

 

[thfcsteff]

That's fair.

The debate that happens on this forum, outside of football discussion, probably does not sway too many minds I would think, but it has some value IMO. It pushes alternative opinions into the information ecosystems we all inhabit in a less aggressive way (mostly). How we react to those alternative opinions, to consider them or discard them immediately is often based on past contributions, or in other words the trust gained over an extended period. That's how I view it anyway.

Indeed.

Personally speaking, discussion and debate is great and there have been many times I've found myself learning a new perspective and appreciating it. What I don't do, is vault opinions just because someone liked a similar one I expressed. Of course we all like to receive a 'like' but it won't drive an opinion I have either way; that only happens in exchanges and debates.

The wider aspects of your question are interesting for sure...

 

[Grays_1890]

Back after a few days chilling and taking in the sport and enjoying a rest from the heat.

Interesting on here that the discusion has taken a turn to how the convos on here go etc. I thought a good reason to come back and have my say.

I think politics is ls old fashioned still in the way it's dealt with, grown humans arguing in an archaic building and stuck in an archaic system and I think some voters still live within that mind set too. You are either left or you are right and that defines you and I think that in the modern world where the world changes that is not reflective of the moving parts and I will explain.

Not a dig by any means, I see @Gilzeantoscore old school in the way that the belief in party politics are purely one way or the other OR those that hold views are able to be pigeon holed to a certain party. That's not a bad thing that's his belief where as I believe it or not despite recent conversations I am more modern and centrists in my views. I think all political parties have their faults, all have their positives, if possible in the modern world I would like a more inclusive politics as I believe in the social care side of Labour, I'm a huge fan of the of the NHS (my mum's worked 30 years in it so I've seen close hand) and I believe we help those less fortunate. But I also believe we need economics to flourish and compliment that side of life, I couldn't get on with the pure vision of socialism given by Corbyn as I think that's as broken politics as anyone pushes. In an ideal world I would take shopping trolley politics, give me Labour's leader now and the Conservatives Chancellor for example, for me that's just a modern way of thinking, I can't do the football club style staunch defence of a party, I saw that in my Grandad and it's irrational from life in my opinion.

The idea that being on one side of politics means you can't acknowledge what works on the other and vice versa is odd for me as is not being able to acknowledge your own political faults or allowing them to enter your mindset, that's just my view.

And I think that's where maybe this forum doesn't reflect real life conversation, you can't see the whites of the eyes and you are limited to flat words and there is a trend where any impartial words are ignored and your are labelled as either right or left based on select comments. I'm as guilty as anyone.

 

[parklane1]

I think politics is ls old fashioned still in the way it's dealt with, grown humans arguing in an archaic building and stuck in an archaic system and I think some voters still live within that mind set too. You are either left or you are right and that defines you and I think that in the modern world where the world changes that is not reflective of the moving parts and I will explain.
.

I am sorry for cutting your post down but i did so because the above is important imo.

I was told a long time ago that there is two things that really should not be debated/ argued/ discussed in serious conversations , one is politics the other is religion. There are a lot of folks who are so set/believe in their opinions on those subjects that its mostly a fruitless exercise. They are exceptions to that of course ( ie those who have a open mind) but generally they are few and hard to find.

 

[Grays_1890]

I am sorry for cutting your post down but i did so because the above is important imo.

I was told a long time ago that there is two things that really should not be debated/ argued/ discussed in serious conversations , one is politics the other is religion. There are a lot of folks who are so set/believe in their opinions on those subjects that its mostly a fruitless exercise. They are exceptions to that of course ( ie those who have a open mind) but generally they are few and hard to find.

No problem cut away.

Never work with animals and kids...sorry that was TV

Yeh I agree and I think it's emphasised on forums where people may agree on a point but because of their political persuation they pick a part to emphasis the difference in political stance.

The migrant topic is a case in point for me. Its always a conversation where certain points are highlighted over others to sometimes paint a different picture in my opinion. I haven't seen ever someone on here say they are anti immigration for example but some replies to certain posters would maybe suggest they are, ommiting certain parts of the post to do so.
I
I think what I am trying to say is the posters name is often taken Into higher consideration on the post than the actual contents

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Back after a few days chilling and taking in the sport and enjoying a rest from the heat.

Interesting on here that the discusion has taken a turn to how the convos on here go etc. I thought a good reason to come back and have my say.

I think politics is ls old fashioned still in the way it's dealt with, grown humans arguing in an archaic building and stuck in an archaic system and I think some voters still live within that mind set too. You are either left or you are right and that defines you and I think that in the modern world where the world changes that is not reflective of the moving parts and I will explain.

Not a dig by any means, I see @Gilzeantoscore old school in the way that the belief in party politics are purely one way or the other OR those that hold views are able to be pigeon holed to a certain party. That's not a bad thing that's his belief where as I believe it or not despite recent conversations I am more modern and centrists in my views. I think all political parties have their faults, all have their positives, if possible in the modern world I would like a more inclusive politics as I believe in the social care side of Labour, I'm a huge fan of the of the NHS (my mum's worked 30 years in it so I've seen close hand) and I believe we help those less fortunate. But I also believe we need economics to flourish and compliment that side of life, I couldn't get on with the pure vision of socialism given by Corbyn as I think that's as broken politics as anyone pushes. In an ideal world I would take shopping trolley politics, give me Labour's leader now and the Conservatives Chancellor for example, for me that's just a modern way of thinking, I can't do the football club style staunch defence of a party, I saw that in my Grandad and it's irrational from life in my opinion.

The idea that being on one side of politics means you can't acknowledge what works on the other and vice versa is odd for me as is not being able to acknowledge your own political faults or allowing them to enter your mindset, that's just my view.

And I think that's where maybe this forum doesn't reflect real life conversation, you can't see the whites of the eyes and you are limited to flat words and there is a trend where any impartial words are ignored and your are labelled as either right or left based on select comments. I'm as guilty as anyone.

The other option is to forget about it all together. I read this thread because I have the time too (I haven't really, I've 101 things I should be doing), but I genuinely don't give a thought to the Westminster massive of all persuasions. And I'd extend that to local politics as well.

As long as we don't get some complete loon bag in like Hitler or Trump none of it really affects me, it can go on in the background while I concern myself with things that do affect me, my family and friends (which ain't much tbh)

 

[Grays_1890]

The other option is to forget about it all together. I read this thread because I have the time too (I haven't really, I've 101 things I should be doing), but I genuinely don't give a thought to the Westminster massive of all persuasions. And I'd extend that to local politics as well.

As long as we don't get some complete loon bag in like Hitler or Trump none of it really affects me, it can go on in the background while I concern myself with things that do affect me, my family and friends (which ain't much tbh)

Oh no I agree I was just saying the potential pitfalls of forums

But I do agree more to be concerned about that's why I don't really concern myself with extreme politics as in 55 years i haven't felt too different in life regardless who was in charge of the country other than Maggie Thatcher and now but that's more due to the pandemic

 

[StephenH]

Being a guest or presenter on TV does not a leader make.

 

[AuroRaman]

Back after a few days chilling and taking in the sport and enjoying a rest from the heat.

Interesting on here that the discusion has taken a turn to how the convos on here go etc. I thought a good reason to come back and have my say.

I think politics is ls old fashioned still in the way it's dealt with, grown humans arguing in an archaic building and stuck in an archaic system and I think some voters still live within that mind set too. You are either left or you are right and that defines you and I think that in the modern world where the world changes that is not reflective of the moving parts and I will explain.

Not a dig by any means, I see @Gilzeantoscore old school in the way that the belief in party politics are purely one way or the other OR those that hold views are able to be pigeon holed to a certain party. That's not a bad thing that's his belief where as I believe it or not despite recent conversations I am more modern and centrists in my views. I think all political parties have their faults, all have their positives, if possible in the modern world I would like a more inclusive politics as I believe in the social care side of Labour, I'm a huge fan of the of the NHS (my mum's worked 30 years in it so I've seen close hand) and I believe we help those less fortunate. But I also believe we need economics to flourish and compliment that side of life, I couldn't get on with the pure vision of socialism given by Corbyn as I think that's as broken politics as anyone pushes. In an ideal world I would take shopping trolley politics, give me Labour's leader now and the Conservatives Chancellor for example, for me that's just a modern way of thinking, I can't do the football club style staunch defence of a party, I saw that in my Grandad and it's irrational from life in my opinion.

The idea that being on one side of politics means you can't acknowledge what works on the other and vice versa is odd for me as is not being able to acknowledge your own political faults or allowing them to enter your mindset, that's just my view.

And I think that's where maybe this forum doesn't reflect real life conversation, you can't see the whites of the eyes and you are limited to flat words and there is a trend where any impartial words are ignored and your are labelled as either right or left based on select comments. I'm as guilty as anyone.

Really excellent post. And I resonated a lot with the 'whites of the eyes' comment, so true in my experience (although I can't let that go without a 'racist' of course)

 

[Rorschach]

Hopefully this has a happy ending (for the people of Belarus) but I can see Putin getting more involved shortly.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1294974663697870849

 

[Grays_1890]

Being a guest or presenter on TV does not a leader make.

In modern politics rightly or wrongly though a personality does

Look at the wrong Milliband saga and Corbyn. I think had David beaten Ed and Labour accepted a modern closer to Centre man Labour would have won recent elections

 

[StephenH]

In modern politics rightly or wrongly though a personality does

Look at the wrong Milliband saga and Corbyn. I think had David beaten Ed and Labour accepted a modern closer to Centre man Labour would have won recent elections

When being a personality is your only qualification i.e. Trump and BoJo. Then we have a total breakdown in politics.
We will get soap stars elected soon with our gullible and stupid electorate.

 

[Grays_1890]

When being a personality is your only qualification i.e. Trump and BoJo. Then we have a total breakdown in politics.
We will get soap stars elected soon with our gullible and stupid electorate.

Trump was a reality star so we are there

Extremes aside in the modern age having a good personality is unfortunately key or at least that's how it seems. I'm not saying it's right just seems to be evident in modern politics. Mrs Clinton, Milliband and Corbyn all appeared socially awkward as did T-May and that gets ripped apart, I would probably say they got ripped apart more for that than their politics

 

[StephenH]

Mrs Clinton, Milliband and Corbyn all appeared socially awkward as did T-May and that gets ripped apart, I would probably say they got ripped apart more for that than their politics

I had/have no problem with awkward.
Jeremy though took awkward to an art form, bless him! So he had to go!

 

[Grays_1890]

I had/have no problem with awkward.
Jeremy though took awkward to an art form, bless him! So he had to go!

He was severely out of his depth in that respect bless him.

 

[thfcsteff]

When being a personality is your only qualification i.e. Trump and BoJo. Then we have a total breakdown in politics.
We will get soap stars elected soon with our gullible and stupid electorate.

Reagan was the pace-setter in this regard. Whilst he was the Governor of California before making his runs for the big seat, his career was as a B movie actor. Schwarzenegger took a similar path when he became Governor of California in 2003, again a (shall we say) less than ornate thespian running in the halls of power. Thankfully the UK hasn't quite adopted the mantra, though I would agree that Boris Johnson is an absolute clown and unfit for the heavy lifting that being a PM necessitates; more dangerously, it means that this gvmt cannot even dysfunction without a Cummings in the background; not good stuff at all...

 

[thfcsteff]

Trump was a reality star so we are there

Extremes aside in the modern age having a good personality is unfortunately key or at least that's how it seems. I'm not saying it's right just seems to be evident in modern politics. Mrs Clinton, Milliband and Corbyn all appeared socially awkward as did T-May and that gets ripped apart, I would probably say they got ripped apart more for that than their politics

And IMO, that stretches back to Kennedy. He was the man who ushered that whole strain of importance into politics.