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Politics, politics, politics part deux

Discussion in 'Randomination' started by SpurMeUp, 19 Feb 2019.

  1. Rorschach

    Rorschach Erik Thorstvedt

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    Yeah I'm pretty sure there are fudge all of those.

    I'm all for the protests and I think there should more of them . The more inconvenience the better.
     
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  2. AuroRaman

    AuroRaman Ruel Fox

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    I attended some. And you are correct. The media love to whip up false coverage and the uninformed love to lap it up.

    Protests are inconvenient, but if someone is taking a stand on my behalf then rock the fudge on.


    Sitting on my porcelain throne using Tapatalk
     
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  3. Rorschach

    Rorschach Erik Thorstvedt

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    I guess it worked
     
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  4. parklane1

    parklane1 Andy Thompson

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    Unfortuately like most protests it will achieve very little in real terms. To much money is being made by those who have the say about how things are run/done.
     
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  5. AuroRaman

    AuroRaman Ruel Fox

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    Revolutions and change always starts from below.


    Sitting on my porcelain throne using Tapatalk
     
  6. Grays_1890

    Grays_1890 Gerry Armstrong

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    Its not the masses its the ones these lot look up to who do it and they lap it up which is funny really. Emma Thompson, Bono and the Boom Town Rate being examples/

    Swamp rats who can afford to take weeks off because they are trust fund babies can fudge off
     
  7. Rorschach

    Rorschach Erik Thorstvedt

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    So let me try and figure out your point. These Swamps rats' annoy you and you have no time for them, but the environmental movement is something you agree with as long as it doesn't inconvenience you.
     
  8. scaramanga

    scaramanga Tommy Harmer Staff Member

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    That's certainly my opinion of it
     
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  9. Rorschach

    Rorschach Erik Thorstvedt

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    I knew that ;)
     
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  10. monkeybarry

    monkeybarry Dean Richards

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    What If that person is aware of their impact and has adjusted their lifestyle to offset their carbon emissions?
    Thus still being an active and wealthy part of society and helping the environment?

    Wealth doesn't dilute the need for action.

    As far as people complaining about "inconvenience" - have a look around the world and then talk about inconvenience and privilege. One of the biggest convenience's we currently have in the UK - we are really lucky our weather is temperate.

    And you know what, so what if you had a little bit of an inconvenience for two weeks of your commute (and it really was just a tiny inconvenience - nothing to bitch about), change happens with inconvenience somewhere, that's how it works. But it's bigger than you and your commute. If you want to talk privilege, thinking your commute is more important than the impact onlf global change on everyone (especially people with fudge all) is privilege.
     
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  11. Gutter Boy

    Gutter Boy Tim Sherwood

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    People don't need to change their habits - that's the wrong target

    It's the companies making too much money from the dependencies of the current system that need to be fought

    A few big moves could get us to Uruguay status of greenness in a few years

    - building 3 or 4 fold our current offshore wind capacity
    - stamp duty waiver for houses sold with solar panels & batteries
    - immediate ban on the sale of new diesel cars
    - 400% tax on all non- biodegradable packaging

    That's the sort of steps needed to solve this - not stopping people travelling or using energy
     
  12. P.D.

    P.D. Gerry Armstrong

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    I don't think many people would disagree that we should be doing more but as ever the details are lacking, going neutral by 2025 just isn't feasible whatever people say. No one has really spelled out what going carbon neutral by 2050 means for everyone as well, the report released yesterday just mentions reductions in energy consumption, use of electricity over gas and oil, changes in diet and less land available for farming.

    As the phrase seems to be recently people don't want to make themselves poorer and I don't see how this can be done without seriously affecting peoples lives financially, electric heating is 3 times the price of gas for instance. I read lots of talk of hydrogen when the people suggesting it seem to forget it's produced via the use of gas and extracting it from water isn't possible at the scale required (or not at present anyway).

    I wouldn't mind having an electric car but there's no point getting one if there's nowhere to charge it, they need to bring in massive infrastructure changes to achieve this.
     
  13. Rorschach

    Rorschach Erik Thorstvedt

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    Well, it's both really but you are correct with regards to the scope of the problem. Sure people need to change their habits, but to be frank that will hardly make much of difference now. A catastrophic amount of climate change is already locked in and cannot be reversed in our generation. Now is only about efforts to mitigate how bad it will get.

    Those 4 options you mention are all noble and laudable ideas but to me only show the real problem. The message even still is being diluted to make it palatable. These 4 ideas you list show the pointless incrementalism message is only now taking hold, and a lot of the ideas gaining traction now while welcome are actually somewhat inconsequential in comparison to the perilous position we find ourselves in. This is where we should have been 10 years ago. We've long passed the point where lifestyle changes will make much of a difference, through every little helps of course. In my opinion, we should be enforcing a policy that all economic activity should be carbon neutral in whatever way possible. If you produce carbon, you clean it up or pay to clean it up with no exceptions. This coupled with aggressive carbon sequestration and possibly climate engineering is the conversations we should be having. I'm not optimistic even though the climate debate now seems to be front and center, finally.

    Happy Friday :)
     
    Last edited: 3 May 2019
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  14. Grays_1890

    Grays_1890 Gerry Armstrong

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    Privilege to want to walk down the street without having someone scream in your face privilege? Not really is it, you will compare it to someone else in some third world country but thats circumstance if you compare me versus them. three times in 5 days I was stopped in random places by people, one on the Overground who started lecturing me on a subject I am already pretty knowledgeable on and then started to scream in my face when I was not interested in engaging because I didnt know the person from adam.

    Lovely lot
     
  15. Grays_1890

    Grays_1890 Gerry Armstrong

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    I agree with making huge changes to life that can be inconvenience yes, the inconveniences I allude to is stopping people in the street who are innocent to alot of this and causing them grief which I saw alot of and experienced myself as I put on another post.

    I've sat in lectures at the University of Saskatchewan on the subject and that of food security so I would say I am somewhat clued up on it and I don't ignore it.

    As someone that is on the same side of the message I am allowed to say that I don't agree with how it is delivered, thats the end of it for me
     
  16. Gutter Boy

    Gutter Boy Tim Sherwood

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    I obviously wasn't around then, but it sounds like the nationwide change from coal to gas in the 1940s, and then the move to natural gas in 1967, seem to have been fairly quickly and comprehensively done when the political will kicked in.
     
  17. nayimfromthehalfwayline

    nayimfromthehalfwayline Cecil Poynton

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    It's not over - it's far, far from over.

    Many hundreds of seats are yet to declare. Many individual political stories yet to be told. So be very aware - the final shape of wins and losses for the government and the main opposition is unclear.

    But at this stage of the morning, there is one message to both of the main parties at Westminster from this enormous set of elections - it's not us, it's both of you.

    Local elections are about different issues in our villages, towns and cities. But at count after count, Tory and Labour candidates have been paying the price for Westminster's failure so far to settle the Brexit question. Council leaders from both parties saying openly that voters can't trust them any more because of how they have dealt with the issue - whether that is a sentiment among Leave voters in Sunderland who don't trust that we'll ever leave, or Remain voters in Bath who are furious that we likely will.

    Or more simply maybe, now we are nearly three years on from the referendum itself, this is a verdict on the competence of Westminster's biggest parties, on the mess of handling Brexit.

    The beneficiaries? A Lib Dem recovery of sorts, a marked pick-up for the Greens, and independent councillors gobbling up seats in different pockets of the country. By traditional measures at this early stage, Labour is far from making the strides of a party marching towards Number 10. The Tories have so far escaped the worst. But their divisions over Brexit have cost them both - and neither of them have an obvious way out.

    But as I say, many more results are yet to come in, and you can keep up with them here throughout the day.
     
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  18. Rorschach

    Rorschach Erik Thorstvedt

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    Well I'm sorry that you experienced something like that. Obviously someone stepped over the line in the case(s) you are describing. That doesn't help.

    I will pivot back to my earlier point that the tone of the environmental mesage has to change from equivocation to emergency. And for that reason I'll stomach arseholes like Bono bandwagon jumping, or protests or whatever. Every little helps.
     
  19. nayimfromthehalfwayline

    nayimfromthehalfwayline Cecil Poynton

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    Key developments so far:
    • The Conservatives have lost control of councils including Peterborough, Basildon and St Albans. Labour has lost control of Hartlepool, Bolsover and Wirral
    • Labour has also lost its mayoral post in Middlesbrough to an independent
    • The Conservatives have won Walsall and North East Lincolnshire - both of which had no party with overall control before
    • The Liberal Democrats have gained councils including Winchester, North Norfolk, Cotswold, Bath and North East Somerset and Vale of White Horse
    • Labour has won Trafford - a former Conservative stronghold
    • Where independent candidates have been standing, they have won on average 25% of the vote - and independents have taken control of two councils - Ashfield and North Kesteven
    • The Green Party has gained 68 councillors so far, while UKIP has lost 62
    • Turnout is averaging just one or two points below the last two local elections, reversing predictions of a major drop-off in voters
     
  20. parklane1

    parklane1 Andy Thompson

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    No surprise for me to see both major partys having lost a lot of ground, the performance of them all in the commons over the Brexit decisions/non decisions was a scandal. They should all be ashamed of themselves.
     

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