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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

Because they think it brings them closer to no deal but Bercow has allowed similar amendments to be voted on more than once. I just think the speaker is someone who should keep things running in the background but he seems to want to be in the limelight.
 
P.D. said:
I guess if we needed any further confirmation that Bercow is in the remain camp then this is it, also means (apparently) that amendments which have been rejected can't be raised again but we've rejected no deal, referendum, indicative votes, EEA, customs union and probably a few other things so not sure where it leaves us.
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Those things are on the table as long as they have substantial difference though
 
May would have been informed and known what JB was going to do and she will try and use it to put bit more pressure on Brussels.
Nothing happens in secret in Westminster I can assure people.
 
I think this is what some of the Labour MPs, like Lisa Nandy, were asking for. They said they could vote for May's deal, but not if they had no say on the future relationship -- especially seeing as it's likely she won't be PM for those negotiations.
 
I have really got a scooby just tittle tattle!
I spoke to my sons mate who works in PC House and it was a mad house on Sunday. Then joked he would have to kill us if told us any more.
 
P.D. said:
I don't believe the criteria to cast your vote has to be on things that affect you personally. You obviously haven't read up on the items I mentioned so there's no real point discussing them.
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That's funny. I write a long post going into almost all of the things you raised. What is it I have not 'read up on'? :) If you are not voting on things that affect you, what is your criteria for voting?

P.D. said:
As for migration I am in favour of it but I also believe that it disadvantages other countries i.e. lots of states fund doctors and dentists etc then they move abroad soon after qualifying and the same goes for other industries e.g. engineering etc.
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So Brexit is a means for you to look out for the interests of other nations? What an odd reason to vote Leave.

P.D. said:
As it so happens a good example of state aid came up today and I'd like to see the government able to override these types of rulings - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47609536
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Fair point. It looks like the EU wanted some of RBS to be sold off. From the article it looks like we (the government) retained 20% of Worldpay and 100% of RBS so the EU doesn't exactly stop some state ownership. Would Worldpay have been so successful had it not been sold off? Probably not. This is an anomoly as the government had to bail the bank out. If it was done in a planned way, there are clearly ways to setup state ownership as France and other EU nations do it.

I've pointed out many many benifits of the EU. In repost you've pointed out some controls on state ownership of business and the EU interfering with mortgages for the elderly; oh and that we benifit from a brain drain from other EU nations to the UK. You can't point to any EU laws that affect you, and tend to vote on issues that affect others - even in other countries. Fair enough!
 
SpurMeUp said:
That's funny. I write a long post going into almost all of the things you raised. What is it I have not 'read up on'? :) If you are not voting on things that affect you, what is your criteria for voting?



So Brexit is a means for you to look out for the interests of other nations? What an odd reason to vote Leave.



Fair point. It looks like the EU wanted some of RBS to be sold off. From the article it looks like we (the government) retained 20% of Worldpay and 400% of RBS so the EU doesn't exactly stop some state ownership. Would Worldpay have been so successful had it not been sold off? Probably not. This is an anomoly as the government had to bail the bank out. If it was done in a planned way, there are clearly ways to setup state ownership as France and other EU nations do it.

I've pointed out many many benifits of the EU. In repost you've pointed out some controls on state ownership of business and the EU interfering with mortgages for the elderly; oh and that we benifit from a brain drain from other EU nations to the UK. You can't point to any EU laws that affect you, and tend to vote on issues that affect others - even in other countries. Fair enough!
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I vote based on things I generally agree or support, sometimes they might affect me personally and sometimes they don't. I'm sure many people also vote in the same manner.

I gave you some reasons but you didn't understand them e.g. stability and growth pact etc, if you don't know what they are then that's not my fault. I don't disagree there are benefits of being in the EU but to me the benefits of not being in the EU outweigh them for me namely not part of ever closer union, free from EU directives - I just read the other day they are looking to remove summertime for instance, ability to set trade deals that don't need to balance out the views of all countries, greater independence to use state aid rules etc and I value these things but of course others may not.
 
P.D. said:
I vote based on things I generally agree or support, sometimes they might affect me personally and sometimes they don't. I'm sure many people also vote in the same manner.

I gave you some reasons but you didn't understand them e.g. stability and growth pact etc, if you don't know what they are then that's not my fault. I don't disagree there are benefits of being in the EU but to me the benefits of not being in the EU outweigh them for me namely not part of ever closer union, free from EU directives - I just read the other day they are looking to remove summertime for instance, ability to set trade deals that don't need to balance out the views of all countries, greater independence to use state aid rules etc and I value these things but of course others may not.
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If you vote on things that sometimes affect you, it stands to reason that you should be able to outline how Brexit affects you....

Things like the stability and growth pact don't have any negative impacts on you does it? If anything stability and growth will help you - stronger stable growth in Europe, stronger stability and growth in the UK, which means more money for the NHS etc. With respect, that you can only point to mortgage lending for the elderly as a real example of how the EU affects us in negative way, suggests you simply don't like the idea of the EU (rather than anything particularly rational). The most impressive thing you wrote was how people vote with their hearts and rationalising it all doesn't really count for toffy. I do respect your view, I do understand your viewpoint. It is just a shame it is so entrenched - as my own is, so I can't comment. I like to think I'd be open to new ideas on how Brexit could work, but I am biased and would like the UK to remain because of all the positives the EU brings.

Maybe I made you think twice. The amount of negatives to Brexit are so overwhelming. I don't see why anyone could back it. The break up of the UK. Losing peace in Ireland. The loss of seamless free trade with 500m consumers. These are seismic things. Bad things for the UK. But it doesbn't seem to register as being real? As though Leavers think it will all just magically work out. Beyond these core things are a multitude of other pretty major benifits, as well as smaller ones. From jobs associated with trading with the EU seamlessly, to jobs related to using the EUs free trade agreements with countries like Japan and Canada to ease of travel and to conduct business in europe. At least you see these benifits - credit to you.

The ever closer union thing is based upon fear. Fear of the other. But decontruct it, and its baseless. It's been intersting and I appreciate you otulining your thoughts on it all.
 
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nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
Maybe. I dont buy it, and I think if Labour really were what they are selling they wouldnt be playing these games.

Says a lot, about the state of the party IMO, that the leadership cant get everyone on the same page.

The Tories are an utter mess, completely split, and even then - Labour arent looking better, are they?

Seen Labour supporters here expecting if there were a GE a minority win, damning really.

And yet - Corbyn could win support from all over the country by being decisive and offering to hear the people. He could be hailed for breaking the deadlock - and would walk any consequent election with a nice majority to then set about the nationalisation program etc he wants.

But he chooses not to, he is as dogmatic about "beating" May as she is about her deal or no deal.

His deal is BS, its no better than hers and needs a fair wind to even begin to get off the ground. Why keep banging the drum on it when he can instantly become "the man of the people" and, with a little patience, walk into the job he wants with ease.
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I called you out because clearly you have higher expectations of Labour. Yes the Tories can play politics, the Tories can hold the country to ransom, but Corbyn he can't put a contrary position, not him, he's just playing politics. Can't say I'm surprised as this double standard has always been thus,
 
Crickets from Nayim re May playing games by just re submitting the same plan in the hope that as time runs out the undecided prefer it to a no deal Brexit. What a cynic, but according to Nayim, that is not worthy of condemnation... but what's this Corbyn has just said... Corbyn is playing....
 
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