Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

[thfcsteff]

It's clear the world over that businesses aren't "just run [them] properly." It's competition and the need for survival that creates efficiency and quality of service.

The second part of this sentence is rubbish.
Efficiency and quality of service? Please. Under-cutting leads to cheaper service ice lacking in quality and true expertise. The problem is there are lots of people who have no concept of what "quality" actually is and confuse it with "cheap". Tragic.

 

[scaramanga]

The second part of this sentence is rubbish.
Efficiency and quality of service? Please. Under-cutting leads to cheaper service ice lacking in quality and true expertise. The problem is there are lots of people who have no concept of what "quality" actually is and confuse it with "cheap". Tragic.

Low quality service will lose customers to higher quality.

If customers value price over quality then what you say may be true, but that's the customer's choice (as it should always be).

 

[thfcsteff]

I have seen a few healthcare systems around Europe and further and I can tell you that the NHS is rock bottom of what I've seen. Spain and Germany were good, but the US was by a very long margin the best I've seen.

You'll be surprised to hear that once again, I have to laugh at your conclusion.
The US system is technically (and potentially) excellent, but in practice is a disgraceful landmine of protocols and money-making procedures which often circumvent the best care which could be achieved. even with an excellent insurance plan, you'd best be prepared to fight and fight very fudging hard for anything which falls outside the parameters of a common cold or stomach ache. I won't even begin to discuss issues of access to this 'care'...it is a system set-up only to work for a specific percentage of society. As for your NHS comments, I can only tell you that my mother has survived cancer twice thanks to the sterling efforts of both the NHS and the Royal Marsden. Trust me when I tell you if she'd been in the US, even with a great insurance plan she probably wouldn't have made it.

I am not sure if this discussion came about as a consequence of Trump's vile and intrusive comments during his visit, bu I can only say he needs to keep his fudging mouth shut and his hands out of our business. Sadly, all the Brexit fools got their first glimpse of what will happen if Brexit is allowed to continue...our initiation into being an American state, a proxy for Dirty Donald and his cronies to use/exploit in Europe.

 

[thfcsteff]

Low quality service will lose customers to higher quality.

If customers value price over quality then what you say may be true, but that's the customer's choice (as it should always be).

I think we're back at the education argument. In order to make in formed choices, there has to be a basic level of education which allows as such. Sadly, (and in partial metaphor) as long as there are idiots who are satiated by cheap Chinese knock-offs from Petticoat Lane, there will never be an appreciation of what a proper service is. And as such, people will continue to be driven by the need to have a few extra quid in their pockets to spend on Costa coffees and then a half mile later, a Nero latte. I agree, choice is indeed the customer's to make, but I would counter that ignorant choices are dangerous for everyone. Isn't that sort of how we ended up at Brexit?

 

[scaramanga]

You'll be surprised to hear that once again, I have to laugh at your conclusion.
The US system is technically (and potentially) excellent, but in practice is a disgraceful landmine of protocols and money-making procedures which often circumvent the best care which could be achieved. even with an excellent insurance plan, you'd best be prepared to fight and fight very fudging hard for anything which falls outside the parameters of a common cold or stomach ache. I won't even begin to discuss issues of access to this 'care'...it is a system set-up only to work for a specific percentage of society. As for your NHS comments, I can only tell you that my mother has survived cancer twice thanks to the sterling efforts of both the NHS and the Royal Marsden. Trust me when I tell you if she'd been in the US, even with a great insurance plan she probably wouldn't have made it.

I am not sure if this discussion came about as a consequence of Trump's vile and intrusive comments during his visit, bu I can only say he needs to keep his fudging mouth shut and his hands out of our business. Sadly, all the Brexit fools got their first glimpse of what will happen if Brexit is allowed to continue...our initiation into being an American state, a proxy for Dirty Donald and his cronies to use/exploit in Europe.

US system worked really well for my wife and I - that's what matters to me

 

[scaramanga]

I think we're back at the education argument. In order to make in formed choices, there has to be a basic level of education which allows as such. Sadly, (and in partial metaphor) as long as there are idiots who are satiated by cheap Chinese knock-offs from Petticoat Lane, there will never be an appreciation of what a proper service is. And as such, people will continue to be driven by the need to have a few extra quid in their pockets to spend on Costa coffees and then a half mile later, a Nero latte. I agree, choice is indeed the customer's to make, but I would counter that ignorant choices are dangerous for everyone. Isn't that sort of how we ended up at Brexit?

I'm not interested in catering for stupid people. Let evolution deal with them.

 

[scaramanga]

Indeed -- the number one cause of bankruptcy in America is healthcare costs. According to polls, a Medicare for all system has majority support even amongst Republican voters. Let's hope Bernie gets in and sorts it out.

Needing the state to cover the cost doesn't negate the efficacy of a privately provided healthcare system.

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

Because they all round into the final point I made.

My fault, you are hilarious. Desperate to blame someone, anyone, for the predetermined outcome youve convinced yourself of.



Because its just those two who have to ok the deal right? Just as thats how May got the deal with the EU signed off.....

It's all about trusting two Tories, who's opposition to socialist health is in their DNA. What, you don't think that these two wouldn't take the opportunity to dismantle the NHS through stealth via Bexit? Come on!

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

P.S, I just cannot get the trust for Nice Little Earner Farage. He would have to be the most devious, shifty and self centered British politician in a generation. Yet people trust his motives. It makes me smile inwardly.

 

[SpurMeUp]

Yet, with vanishingly few exceptions, governments from both sides of parliament have failed to run services effectively and efficiently. Even the CEO of your paragon of public service profits, East Coast Mainline, has stated that he was successful because he benchmarked against the private sector and that without the private sector to compare to, he couldn't have done it.

It's clear the world over that businesses aren't "just run [them] properly." It's competition and the need for survival that creates efficiency and quality of service. It's the appetite for entrepreneurial risk which doesn't exist in public finance that drives investment and technology. It's the openness of a market to new suppliers that keeps methods fresh and innovative, against which we can all benchmark and be better. Have you ever seen what Lefties do when the government tries to offer market rate remuneration packages to the best execs? They throw a fudging fit!

Yes that is why you change things. Don't keeping doing the same thing - letting people take out money from the nation or run public assets badly. It's so simple. 1. A company like Thames Water has no effective competition 2. Have the tax payer as share holders but set it up like a private company 3. enjoy the £1,000,000,000 + it makes a year.

 

[Gutter Boy]

You'll be surprised to hear that once again, I have to laugh at your conclusion.
The US system is technically (and potentially) excellent, but in practice is a disgraceful landmine of protocols and money-making procedures which often circumvent the best care which could be achieved. even with an excellent insurance plan, you'd best be prepared to fight and fight very fudging hard for anything which falls outside the parameters of a common cold or stomach ache. I won't even begin to discuss issues of access to this 'care'...it is a system set-up only to work for a specific percentage of society. As for your NHS comments, I can only tell you that my mother has survived cancer twice thanks to the sterling efforts of both the NHS and the Royal Marsden. Trust me when I tell you if she'd been in the US, even with a great insurance plan she probably wouldn't have made it.

I am not sure if this discussion came about as a consequence of Trump's vile and intrusive comments during his visit, bu I can only say he needs to keep his fudging mouth shut and his hands out of our business. Sadly, all the Brexit fools got their first glimpse of what will happen if Brexit is allowed to continue...our initiation into being an American state, a proxy for Dirty Donald and his cronies to use/exploit in Europe.

My experience has been very different. I knew two people who had the same type of cancer. The one in Canada it was picked up in an annual/bi-annual required health check, he had a few days off work for a minor procedure, and was good as new. The one in the UK was diagnosed coming into A&E in agony, and was dead within two weeks. This isn't isolated - we have about the lowest cancer survival rate in the first world, because of late diagnoses.

In trying to make the NHS as cheap as possible, it is just completely reactive. Bandage you up and give you some drugs.

I would support any alternative that introduces pro-activity - regular compulsory health screenings for everyone and preventative treatments.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Peterborough voted 61-39 in favour of leave. Labour MP goes to prison, re-call petition, by-election called. Labour retains the seat.

First past the post is not going to be kind to the Brexit Party. But they do have the potential to cause massive damage to the Tory vote (Tories had their worst result in Peterborough since the 1800s). If the Brexit Party can't win the seat in a by-election with a consituency that is heavily for leave, they aren't going to win many seats at all come the General Election.

You don't tend to use Westminster elections for protest votes, basically because you are stuck with that person for 5 years and their job actually matters. Local and EU elections are more where protest votes are made. The Brexit party will vanish the second Brexit actually happens. So that would leave Peterborough with a redundant MP from October (hopefully) through till 2022.

I think my point is that it's not about FPTP, it's that the electorate are smarter and know the games. Personally I voted Green in the local election, Brexit in the EU election and in the next general election I'll probably vote for whichever of the Greens and Lib Dems seem to have the momentum to kick out O'Mara (my disgraced and absent Labour MP). That doesn't fit with anyone's attempt at 'narrative'

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

It's all about trusting two Tories, who's opposition to socialist health is in their DNA. What, you don't think that these two wouldn't take the opportunity to dismantle the NHS through stealth via Bexit? Come on!

What? You actually think two people, in different parties, have the sole power to even do that?

Come on!

P.S, I just cannot get the trust for Nice Little Earner Farage. He would have to be the most devious, shifty and self centered British politician in a generation. Yet people trust his motives. It makes me smile inwardly.

What makes you think anyone trusts his motives at all?

I trust one think about Farage, he is a self serving clam and that makes him predictable.

 

[scaramanga]

Yes that is why you change things. Don't keeping doing the same thing - letting people take out money from the nation or run public assets badly. It's so simple. 1. A company like Thames Water has no effective competition 2. Have the tax payer as share holders but set it up like a private company 3. enjoy the £1,000,000,000 + it makes a year.

If they're making that much money in a monopoly then the customer isn't getting value for money. Open up the monopoly to competition, let the customer get better value for money and spend the savings on what they choose rather than what the government (almost always wrongly) deems correct.

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

What? You actually think two people, in different parties, have the sole power to even do that?

Come on!



What makes you think anyone trusts his motives at all?

I trust one think about Farage, he is a self serving clam and that makes him predictable.

On their own... of course not. Both of them are sock puppets for powerful vested interests.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

On their own... of course not. Both of them are sock puppets for powerful vested interests.

Right.....

 

[scaramanga]

Right.....

Did you miss the memo? It's all a Jewish conspiracy.

Don't mention it out loud though, you'll end up having to work in a prominent position in the Labour party.

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

Did you miss the memo? It's all a Jewish conspiracy.

Don't mention it out loud though, you'll end up having to work in a prominent position in the Labour party.

Too funny.. ha, ha, ha, ha. Keep up the Murdoch inspired smears. Maybe some people will believe it. The voters of Petersborough weren't so stupid.

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

Right.....

Yep... Corbyn has questions to answer over this surely.

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

Right.....

You know the elite, the financial establishment... you have heard of them?