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Pierre-Emile Højbjerg

braineclipse said:
For Ndombele we have Lo Celso who showed last season that he can bring similar qualities to the team, though he does do things differently to Ndombele. The way we're playing now with two deep midfielders and Ndombele more advanced we also have other options.

For Kane we have both Vinicius and Son at the very least (not counting Bale and Moura). Still too early to say with Vinicius, but with Son at least we have seen that we can make it work.

There's a drop off in quality. Just as there is with any player coming in to replace an automatic starter.

For Hojbjerg we have... Only the options that we tried to make work last season, that didn't really work. Can't say that we couldn't find a good solution, but there isn't an obvious one. Just as an example Sissoko hasn't really been able to form a good partnership with any central midfielder since he came, works quite well with him and Hojbjerg now.

Hojbjerg is good enough at enough of what's important for that role to make up for the shortcomings of the others. The others have shortcomings that aren't made up for sufficiently by the other players in the squad making dysfunctional partnerships even though they are good players.

Perhaps, if the day comes, Mourinho will find a solution. Perhaps one or two players have stepped up enough that we don't have to worry. Perhaps the rest of the team is now better to the extent that our central midfield would work where it has previously struggled.

That's a lot of perhaps though. Whereas for other positions we have real options.
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I was one of those who absolutely welcomed Hojbjerg. I was so pleased we addressed the most pressing (excus the pun) issue in our side - the lack of quality in midfield. It has been an issue for about 3 years. I defended Hojbjerg when others questioned him, thought his passing was better than people thought, and his tenacity was there for all to see. All that said, I think Kane and Ndombele are more unique and probably harder to substitute.
 
K.D.D.D.D.Soc said:
It's a thing most fans and a lot of the media dont see or understand, a team needs players who do the dirty work (not fouling) just cleaning up, keeping it tidy. Pogba is a world super star, the media use to love him but would you swap PEH for him? I hope the team selection showed everyone at the club that although we have better technical players than Bergwin and Sissoko their willingness to work to the team plan is what is required in every game.
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On the flip side of that I think some underestimate the importance of having good passing and technical skill from the players that (mainly) do the dirty work. And that the technical ability of the truly top class dirty work defensively midfielders gets under appreciated.

What makes Hojbjerg so good is his wide range of qualities. The City game was the best we've seen from him in terms of one vs. one defending and tackling imo. But overall he's not at the level of some of our previous DM players like Palacios, Sandro or Wanyama. He more than makes up for it by, among other things, being really useful on the ball.
 
Bishop said:
Absolute agreement. Hojberg is so bloody good at what he does he elevates the team immensely. He gives it a sturdy base to work from as well as his passing being massively underrated. He is the the player like you say we really don't have a reasonable replacement in the squad for. Hopefully long term Skill clam be that player and we won't need someone this year.
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:D

Could you clarify if he's good or bad?
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
I agree, and it's surprised me. I'd admit (although not having watched much of him at Southampton) I thought he was gonna be the opposite ie one dimensional.
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Maybe it was because their game was one system, and one system only
Here he has shown that range which just wasn’t there at Southampton
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
I agree, and it's surprised me. I'd admit (although not having watched much of him at Southampton) I thought he was gonna be the opposite ie one dimensional.
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I didn't know what to expect as I hadn't watched too much of him. I did believe that if Jose wanted him so badly as we assumed for DM he would have something about himself but I did wonder if he was a cheap "can do for now" option whereas someone like Partey would be much more expensive and time consuming to sign.

Seems any slight concerns I had on that part were totally unfounded as Hojberg has been bought because he's the right guy and nothing to do with the cost. His relative low cost is just a bonus.
 
K.D.D.D.D.Soc said:
It's a thing most fans and a lot of the media dont see or understand, a team needs players who do the dirty work (not fouling) just cleaning up, keeping it tidy.
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I think most people understand that, the problem is that almost every player that does that can't do the possession stuff too.

Look at when we played Sissoko there as an example - you need someone who is good on the ball as well as good at cleaning up. They're very rare players.
 
I didn't know if Hojberg would be any good, a Southampton player, but wasn't sure if he actually pulled up any trees whilst there.

Man, i was so so so wrong.

It's become abundantly clear that Hojberg should have been clamoured for by City, United, hell Arsenal paid £45m for Partey (yes he's younger) but Hojberg at that price was an absolute steal.

Yes he's played well, but make no mistake, this player is an absolute WINNER. He's aggressive, he has this mentality that you can't account for, that so many players with far more ability just do not have (Pogba for example), he carries himself so well, so professionally, proper Roy Keane esque.

I fudgein love him. No wonder he was Jose's first name for the Summer.
 
Diamond Lights said:
I didn't know if Hojberg would be any good, a Southampton player, but wasn't sure if he actually pulled up any trees whilst there.

Man, i was so so so wrong.

It's become abundantly clear that Hojberg should have been clamoured for by City, United, hell Arsenal paid £45m for Partey (yes he's younger) but Hojberg at that price was an absolute steal.

Yes he's played well, but make no mistake, this player is an absolute WINNER. He's aggressive, he has this meteorology that you can't account for, that so many players with far more ability just do not have (Pogba for example), he carries himself so well, so professionally, proper Roy Keane esque.

I fudgein love him. No wonder he was Jose's first name for the Summer.
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He is currently operating at a world class level IMO
He is doing what city brought Rodri for
 
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braineclipse said:
Hojbjerg is good enough at enough of what's important for that role to make up for the shortcomings of the others. The others have shortcomings that aren't made up for sufficiently by the other players in the squad making dysfunctional partnerships even though they are good players.

Perhaps, if the day comes, Mourinho will find a solution. Perhaps one or two players have stepped up enough that we don't have to worry. Perhaps the rest of the team is now better to the extent that our central midfield would work where it has previously struggled.
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Sorry for cutting you post down but i wanted to comment on the bit above, i have said elsewhere that Hojbjerg imo is the best signing we have made for a while as he is what we have really missed in CM. However i do believe that as you say we are a better unit in our CM now under Jose and the other players have stepped up to the plan so if there comes a time when he has to miss games ( and it will) i think the other players will know what they have to do, Jose has got us playing a system and although good players will be missed the system should still be able to perform.
 
scaramanga said:
I think most people understand that, the problem is that almost every player that does that can't do the possession stuff too.

Look at when we played Sissoko there as an example - you need someone who is good on the ball as well as good at cleaning up. They're very rare players.
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I'm not sure most people do, many seem to want an expensive foreign player who can do tricks and flicks, TV certainly do, particularly with weird hair style and tattoos. Just need to look how Penandes is hyped at United.
 
Bishop said:
I didn't know what to expect as I hadn't watched too much of him. I did believe that if Jose wanted him so badly as we assumed for DM he would have something about himself but I did wonder if he was a cheap "can do for now" option whereas someone like Partey would be much more expensive and time consuming to sign.

Seems any slight concerns I had on that part were totally unfounded as Hojberg has been bought because he's the right guy and nothing to do with the cost. His relative low cost is just a bonus.
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That's the thing about Mourinho. People do go on quite a bit about how much money he's spent and there is some truth to that. If there is money to spend for Mourinho he will spend it, like most managers, and he's been at some very rich clubs.

But what gets overlooked is that he quite frequently has signed players that didn't cost that much money that have been massive successes. Khedira and Ozil at Real for example. Even at Chelsea first time around, yes he spent relatively big on Drogba, Essien etc. But no world record breaking fees and also quite a few cheaper players like Robben and Cech. Or at Inter with Sneijder, Motta and Lucio.

He knows what he needs, he knows with a high degree of certainty which players will fit in. He has some peculiarities in terms of which players he wants, but it's not always massive money signings.
parklane1 said:
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Sorry for cutting you post down but i wanted to comment on the bit above, i have said elsewhere that Hojbjerg imo is the best signing we have made for a while as he is what we have really missed in CM. However i do believe that as you say we are a better unit in our CM now under Jose and the other players have stepped up to the plan so if there comes a time when he has to miss games ( and it will) i think the other players will know what they have to do, Jose has got us playing a system and although good players will be missed the system should still be able to perform.
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I hope so, but I think it's uncertain at this time. Hence my worry about Hojbjerg getting injured.
 
braineclipse said:
That's the thing about Mourinho. People do go on quite a bit about how much money he's spent and there is some truth to that. If there is money to spend for Mourinho he will spend it, like most managers, and he's been at some very rich clubs.

But what gets overlooked is that he quite frequently has signed players that didn't cost that much money that have been massive successes. Khedira and Ozil at Real for example. Even at Chelsea first time around, yes he spent relatively big on Drogba, Essien etc. But no world record breaking fees and also quite a few cheaper players like Robben and Cech. Or at Inter with Sneijder, Motta and Lucio.

He knows what he needs, he knows with a high degree of certainty which players will fit in. He has some peculiarities in terms of which players he wants, but it's not always massive money signings. I hope so, but I think it's uncertain at this time. Hence my worry about Hojbjerg getting injured.
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I've always said about Mourinho it's a misconception that he only wants expensive superstars it's less about money or super status but more about being a formed and finished article. He isn't so interested in finding gems in the dirt he'd rather polish an already sparkling diamond because he can see how and where that fits in his system. Those sort of players often cost that bit more because their true level is a bit more apparent.

I think that also applies to mentality, Jose wants "men", those who know and how to react and cope under pressure and difficult situations. He will gladly play a young player if they have the right mentality but he isn't so interested in developing that aspect of the player does t already possess that mental strength. It's why a player like Mkhitaryan didn't work for Jose at United, he has historically weak mentality wherever he's gone.

The likes of Kane is the opposite, he's already had to struggle to prove himself Premier League quality. Also Hojberg fits that model, started off at a massive club in Bayern but didn't quite cut it and had to go down a level and come again. Spurs is his 2nd chance and he won't let that go meekly hence why he fits Mourinho's methodology so well.
 
Bishop said:
I've always said about Mourinho it's a misconception that he only wants expensive superstars it's less about money or super status but more about being a formed and finished article. He isn't so interested in finding gems in the dirt he'd rather polish an already sparkling diamond because he can see how and where that fits in his system. Those sort of players often cost that bit more because their true level is a bit more apparent.

I think that also applies to meteorology, Jose wants "men", those who know and how to react and cope under pressure and difficult situations. He will gladly play a young player if they have the right meteorology but he isn't so interested in developing that aspect of the player does t already possess that mental strength. It's why a player like Mkhitaryan didn't work for Jose at United, he has historically weak meteorology wherever he's gone.

The likes of Kane is the opposite, he's already had to struggle to prove himself Premier League quality. Also Hojberg fits that model, started off at a massive club in Bayern but didn't quite cut it and had to go down a level and come again. Spurs is his 2nd chance and he won't let that go meekly hence why he fits Mourinho's methodology so well.
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I agree to an extent at the very least.

It depends what is meant by formed and finished article and already sparkling gem.

He's been on record that he wanted Sessegnon at United. He seems happy with Bergwijn and so far at least has put Rodon ahead of Sanches. He's thrown Tanganga in at the deep end a couple of times and seems to rate him.

I think what you're saying is certainly true to an extent at least almost regardless of how the above terms are used. But that perception might also be a result of the clubs he's been at. Chelsea, Inter, Real and United are or were clubs where quick success was seen as very important.

The same is true here, but to a different extent. So far he's seemed happy to adjust at least somewhat to that in the transfer market.
 
braineclipse said:
I agree to an extent at the very least.

It depends what is meant by formed and finished article and already sparkling gem.

He's been on record that he wanted Sessegnon at United. He seems happy with Bergwijn and so far at least has put Rodon ahead of Sanches. He's thrown Tanganga in at the deep end a couple of times and seems to rate him.

I think what you're saying is certainly true to an extent at least almost regardless of how the above terms are used. But that perception might also be a result of the clubs he's been at. Chelsea, Inter, Real and United are or were clubs where quick success was seen as very important.

The same is true here, but to a different extent. So far he's seemed happy to adjust at least somewhat to that in the transfer market.
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I mean the commonly held perception is that he only wants older superstar best in the world players whereas I think what he has wanted over the years is more nuanced than that.

He wanted and got Varane when he was a talented but very inexperienced 18 year old and put him pretty much straight into the Real Madrid first team. We've seen him do similar with Tangana albeit an older player but equally inexperienced.

So what I'm trying to say is if the player has the attitude and mentality Jose has no qualms playing him but he isn't interested in babying players or those who don't have a strong mentality no matter their age ie Mkhitaryan.

He wants players of strong will because playing for him it will be tested by circumstance or even himself. Coincidentally those more fully formed players tend to be Der because for many it is maturity that gives them that perspective and understanding of self but it doesn't have to be for him.
 
Bishop said:
I mean the commonly held perception is that he only wants older superstar best in the world players whereas I think what he has wanted over the years is more nuanced than that.

He wanted and got Varane when he was a talented but very inexperienced 18 year old and put him pretty much straight into the Real Madrid first team. We've seen him do similar with Tangana albeit an older player but equally inexperienced.

So what I'm trying to say is if the player has the attitude and meteorology Jose has no qualms playing him but he isn't interested in babying players or those who don't have a strong meteorology no matter their age ie Mkhitaryan.

He wants players of strong will because playing for him it will be tested by circumstance or even himself. Coincidentally those more fully formed players tend to be Der because for many it is maturity that gives them that perspective and understanding of self but it doesn't have to be for him.
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Yes, but with some qualifiers.

Say Aurier and Ndombele in the winter last season. Not sure many would say that it was obvious that they had the right mentality. Speculations that they would be casualties of the Mourinho methods were quite frequent iirc.

Mourinho gives players the chance to improve and show that they have the right mentality. At least if he sees something in them. There is a point of no return or seems, and like most top managers he has little time for players that over time don't show the right mentality.

I guess if we're talking about him signing new players it's more black and white. Can't see him going out and buying some mercurial talent with attitude problems hoping that it can be sorted out. Again I think that's a fairly common view from top managers and top clubs.
 
braineclipse said:
Yes, but with some qualifiers.

Say Aurier and Ndombele in the winter last season. Not sure many would say that it was obvious that they had the right meteorology. Speculations that they would be casualties of the Mourinho methods were quite frequent iirc.

Mourinho gives players the chance to improve and show that they have the right meteorology. At least if he sees something in them. There is a point of no return or seems, and like most top managers he has little time for players that over time don't show the right meteorology.

I guess if we're talking about him signing new players it's more black and white. Can't see him going out and buying some mercurial talent with attitude problems hoping that it can be sorted out. Again I think that's a fairly common view from top managers and top clubs.
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You're right that many from the outside wouldn't have expected either to make the grade under Mourinho but that that is just a perception. None of us were actually present in the training ground and none of us know either payer so we don't know their attitudes or mentality.

Given Aurier has come from Africa and had to build a career in Europe far from home it suggests that his mentality is actually rather strong. Likewise with Ndombele we have heard the stories of his early career rejections and the 2nd chance he had to work hard to gain so again on a superficial level you might think they weren't suited (a lot of that plays to racial stereotypes imo) but when you delve deepertheir relative success and response to the challenges Jose has presented them with makes a lot of sense.
 
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