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OMT - Tottenham vs. West Ham

Discussion in 'Spurs News & Views' started by Mumorn, 3 Oct 2013.

  1. DubaiSpur

    DubaiSpur Paul Walsh

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    Well, let me pick up on a few of your points. Firstly, I don't think I've ever seen seven men arrayed in one defensive line, with five of those men camped in the penalty area while the other two defend determinedly out wide. And, having seen that in this game, I could then scarcely believe that there were two more Spam players patrolling the area in front of the back seven, choking off all play in the middle and forcing us out wide. That was deliberate: Fat Sam basically forced us to cross it in or use our wig-backs to create a 2-on-1 overload.

    Only, he knew that we had no wing-backs today, and that we would play one of Defoe or Soldado, neither of which are particularly good in the air. So by forcing our inside forwards to act like wingers pinging crosses into the box, he in effect made us give West Ham possession over and over, since no one in our side could win a header if their lives depended on it, Daws and Verts included judging by what just happened.

    Those are not the actions of some random fly-by-night manager relying on luck and a clean sheet. Those are all tactical tweaks that, when combined, utterly destroyed us. It took them sixty minutes to get it completely right (we often overloaded them 3-on-2 in front of their wall of seven, which led to the profusion of long-range Paulinho and Townsend shots), but once they did they steamrollered any opposition AVB could muster.

    Secondly, Walker's injury led to complacency in the rest of the team. Well, in that case, AVB bears even more of the responsibility, not less. He bought these players. He picked this side. But he couldn't tell them to ****ing focus in a London ****ing derby? Could he not communicate to them how important these things are to the fans, regardless of whatever delusions of ****ing grandeur these overpaid arses possessed? Could he not point out that our hubris had already seen us lose 1-0 to an Arsenal side that did much the same thing West Ham ended up doing?

    He bought this side, and he picked this side. Any lapses in concentration, any flaws of character, any laziness, any complacency, any laid-back attitudes, can be traced back to him for buying these damn players in the first place, instead of more mentally steely ones. And the reason I'm more angry about this than I otherwise would be is because if these lads think a London derby is the time to become complacent, weak and unfocused, and subsequently, if these lads cannot rouse themselves from their slumber when facing a West Ham side who embarassed them in terms of work-rate, commitment and desire....then there are serious mental and motivational problems among them that run deeper than just this match alone. And though our squad may be the most technically proficient I've seen in my time supporting this club, if they truly grew complacent before a London derby at home, then that proficiency doesn't count for a single thing, because far greater problems lie beneath this surface of apparently boundless squad depth. Squad depth doesn't mean much if everyone is equally unmotivated, lazy or complacent. And though we are indeed a quality side, what will that count for if these lads end up bottling it again because they grow complacent too easily, or give up too easily, or become lazy too quickly? Not a damn thing.

    I said at the end of last season that we would need to become mentally resilient, fearless, angry, and above all endlessly hungry for the win, hungry for three points, hungry for success. Only then would we get anywhere. And if it turns out that Walker's injury led to 'complacency', then we have done none of those things and are as weak as we were last season, relying on a Bale that now isn't there to see us through. And either way, that is AVB's fault. He bought these lads. He could not motivate them.

    Allardyce bought his own lads too. But he motivated them. They fought like tigers, while we folded like kittens. What does that say about Allardyce versus AVB?
     
  2. diego_maradona

    diego_maradona Steffen Iversen Staff Member

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    We are so narrow, so West Ham deploying 4 CM's in a narrow formation made us so easy to defend against.
     
  3. Daisuk

    Daisuk Jack Jull

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    The crucial factors for me today;

    - very poor work rate, we thought we had won it by just walking on to the pitch
    - not enough pace on the ball
    - very little movement
    - gylfi constantly moving into the center = no width = very predictable attacking game (basically - give it to townsend)
    - jermaine defoe is not a lone striker (he might do allright against one of the ****tiest teams in Norway or Russia, not in the PL), we've seen this how many times now? someone give AVB a history lesson
    - wet spam's plan worked, and we had no plan b
    - avb's half time team talk seemed to work, but for 10 minutes? why?
    - not enough of a "team" yet to fight back once the unexpected hit (wet spam's first two goals, basically)

    We underestimated them big time. We've obviously started to believe all the media hype lately (only a matter of WHEN the goals will pour in).

    It's a reality check, and I think we needed one. We're not better than this as a team yet (once things start to go a bit against us). We need to pull ourselves up by the bootstraps and start working.
     
  4. paxtonwolf

    paxtonwolf Mel Hopkins

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    Just back from the game. DOnt think I want to read/should even read the OMT

    I will though thank Warrington Wolves and Tottenham Hotspur for combining to provide me with an absolute f#ckin abortion of a weekend.
    Both of them build you up only to kick you in the teeth.

    Today though was probably the worst display I have seen at WHL, surpassing the 4-1 Toon defeat (thankfully I missed the 6-1 Chelsea shambles). Outfought almost all afternoon.
    I know its only one defeat, but if somebody tells me again they think we could win the League, I will need pampers because I might p#ss myself. I'm pretty sure Title-winning teams dont score 6 goal in their first 7 games and get owned by a West Ham team that had previously had only had 7 shots on target all season. Embarassing

    Hopefully, its only a blip and ends up being a much-needed kick up the backside. Sadly its 3 points we will never get back
     
  5. Jordinho

    Jordinho John Cameron Staff Member

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    I was just about to make several of these points. We need our wide forwards to stay wide(r) and utilize the overlapping FBs better. You don't go more central unless play is on the other side and a cross into the box is imminent. Then it's their job to attack the far post. This also means not having Defoe as your lone striker. Never, ever again in the league or against decent opposition in cup competitions. Better movement and stretching the opponents team is what is needed.

    We average 19 shots per game. It's not a lack of creativity, it's poor finishing, but as long as we work hard and don't concede we'll do okay.
     
  6. Jordinho

    Jordinho John Cameron Staff Member

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    [video=dailymotion;x15mj5g]http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x15mj5g_τοτεναμγουεστχαμ-ourmatch-net_lifestyle[/video]


    [​IMG]

    Clear push, should not have been allowed.

    [​IMG]

    Don't think it's offside, poor by Dawson. And Walker too.

    [​IMG]

    The one incident that really ****ed me off today was Dawson for their third. What the hell is that?
     
  7. Jurgen the German

    Jurgen the German Jimmy Cantrell

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    The 2nd one wasn't even close to being offside.
     
  8. SteveAWOL

    SteveAWOL Andy Thompson

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    Hmmm, Squawka / Opta had the possession at 55/45 :-k

    This. Hopefully Rose is back for our next game and stays fit until at least January, as our left flank offers no attacking threat with Naughton and Siggy playing.

    [​IMG]
     
  9. diego_maradona

    diego_maradona Steffen Iversen Staff Member

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    No sugar coating that from Daws. We all love him but that was ****ing pathetic.
     
  10. braineclipse

    braineclipse David Ginola

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    I have no idea. Reminded me of the Amalfitano vs Rio Ferdinand goal (where I was very critical of Ferdinand). Like with Ferdinand Dawson doesn't have to make a tackle there. If he just slows down the opponent or guides him sideways for a second then Vertonghen will be back to cover. Seems like a pretty bad decision to me.
     
  11. screen nayim

    screen nayim John Gorman

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    So ****ing predictable.
     
  12. thfcsteff

    thfcsteff Willie Hall

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    Agreed.
    A bad day for us. We will be back. Spammers were strong. 3rd goal was really good.
     
  13. braineclipse

    braineclipse David Ginola

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    Weren't we favourites for the 4 out of the first 6 games that we won?
     
  14. glorygloryeze

    glorygloryeze Paul Walsh

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    At least I chuckled when I checked this thread to see Mumorn's new Avatar AND new location:ross:

    The creativity of the mods in choosing avatars when OMTs lead to losses is still beautiful!
     
  15. billyiddo

    billyiddo Garth Crooks Staff Member

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    At least we're appreciated for something :D
     
  16. glorygloryeze

    glorygloryeze Paul Walsh

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    Still LOL at the Avatar chosen for Mumorn!! HILARIOUS!!!

    Take a bow mods! Take a bow!
     
  17. Stenno

    Stenno Banned

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    Mumorn deserves everything he gets after this debacle. OMT GHod my eye.
     
  18. glorygloryeze

    glorygloryeze Paul Walsh

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    Yeah, it was a shockingly poor effort. Almost like he believed that just by typing a couple of token sentences he could just start an OMT just like that - and continue to call himself an OMT GHod.

    Hmmm....the effect was wide-ranging wasn't it:-k
     
  19. BrainOfLevy

    BrainOfLevy Michael Carrick

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    A lot here is the kind of massive generalisations and assumptions that I thought you were better than man! AVB team loses to Allardyce team, so what does that say about AVB vs Allardyce? Bugger all! We took 6 points off of them last year. We comprehensively outplayed them at the Lane even when they had Carroll playing and fully deserved the win at Upton Park. What does that say about AVB vs Sam? Again bugger all! It doesn't prove that 'An AVB team will keep fighting to the bitter end' any more than it proves Allardyce can motivate a team better than AVB today.

    I have definitely seen a team park the bus like today before, and in no way is it a tactical masterclass. It is the mark of a midtable team going to a top 4 contender and hoping to suck the pressure up and hit on the break. West Ham can't believe how lucky they were that we were so bad. This is like when someone said after Arsenal that 'Carzola coming in from the left' was a tactical innovation that bamboozled AVB. We see it every game! As against Norwich, as against any team that comes here to frustrate, they run the risk of letting our good footballers play near their goal. A lot of the team we won't be forced out wide to ping hopeless balls in, because we will play through even that frustrating wall of opposition. That we weren't able to today just suggests to me we were not bang on it. When you see the team start to lump balls in, you know they have no idea. But we come up against this sort of thing every week, and most of the time we are able to break it down. I don't think Sam was lucky, because any mid table team has to come to a team like ours and set up like that. If they were to 'have a go' at us, there's probably a 95% chance we destroy them. We are favourites for a reason. So most mid table teams come to top 4 contender stadiums and set up like they do, and on a few occasions over the season the 20% that they actually win the match happens. It can happen. We move on.

    When I say Walker's injury lead to complacency, I don't really think it's something obvious that all AVB needs to say is '****ING COME ON LADS! LETS ****ING GET AT THEM! ITS A LONDON DERBY FOR **** SAKE!!' because obviously he has tried to motivate them. At half time he would have said some professional things, and he would have said some things to motivate the team. But what I'm saying is that if a player is injured, I think even subconsciously it impacts on the rest of the team. It felt the same against Fulham last season when I think a few of the team were carrying knocks and we looked a lot like today. Like we didn't have a clue. It's why you need a squad of people utterly determined in training every week. I can see why he doesn't want any Ade's not willing to fight, if that's what it looked like. Complacency creeps in. It's a mental thing. You don't know when it will happen but it can happen.

    We were absolutely outfought. But I'm not going to go bat**** and start drawing ultimate conclusions about our manager or our players. We had a bad day. West Ham will have bad days. Arsenal had a bad day in the first game of the season and Man United lost at home last week. To say that 'AVB bought these players, he should be able to motivate them' implies that you think an acceptable and realistic level of performance from our manager is for the team to never have bad days at the office. As desirable as that is, I think every team bar a select few on the planet are prone to these kind of mishaps over the course of the season. We will have more days like this in our time with AVB, but so will the other teams. Let's not lose perspective though. We have done excellent business this summer and have an excellent squad, we have a good manager who by all accounts has the respect of the players and many peers within the game.

    We are in good hands, but that does not preclude us from having shocks and **** days just like any team can.
     
  20. onlyme

    onlyme Banned

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    Page 17 has some enlightening posts.
    Apparently West Ham were not playing well according to the experts.
     

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