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*** OMT Tottenham Hotspur v Watford ***

Bishop said:
We need to change it up for the next match because clearly this system is hitting some roadblocks. We just about got away with it today.
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The system -and Conte’s incessant drilling of it- is the only reason we won today. The problem he has is we don’t have the quality necessary at RWB to make it work, and PEH is increasingly looking upgradable. I would start Winks with Skipp is only because WInks has progressive passing in him, good vision and generally great composure.

Imagine if Royal was a WB; just four accurate crosses from the right today would’ve opened this game right up. IMO. I’d argue that the other thing we desperately need in the next few weeks is another quality striker. We had, what, 21 shots today? And how many times did Royal get the ball? I think it is clear the oppo knew he is no wing-back and as such would be little threat, unlike Reggie who was watched much more severely.

So I have no problem with the system, but I do think Winks should start alongside Skipp away from home.
 
braineclipse said:
Interesting question.

I guess it depends in part of what you mean by creative? Also on if we play a midfield two or midfield three?

For now it doesn't seem to be top priority.
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I think his systems have always been pretty clear, revolved around quality wing-backs and a strong, technically excellent midfield which can pass quickly and efficiently. I don’t think he will be signing ‘creatives’ as such, more decisive, fast and technically excellent players who can help the system(s).
 
thfcsteff said:
The system -and Conte’s incessant drilling of it- is the only reason we won today. The problem he has is we don’t have the quality necessary at RWB to make it work, and PEH is increasingly looking upgradable. I would start Winks with Skipp is only because WInks has progressive passing in him, good vision and generally great composure.

Imagine if Royal was a WB; just four accurate crosses from the right today would’ve opened this game right up. IMO. I’d argue that the other thing we desperately need in the next few weeks is another quality striker. We had, what, 21 shots today? And how many times did Royal get the ball? I think it is clear the oppo knew he is no wing-back and as such would be little threat, unlike Reggie who was watched much more severely.

So I have no problem with the system, but I do think Winks should start alongside Skipp away from home.
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Fully agreed on the system and the need to keep drilling and working on that system. The medium to long term benefits on working on something consistently outweighs the benefits of making greater changes game to game.

We don't have a squad set up to play any good system over time so we will run into roadblocks. No matter what system, no matter what manager. Keep working on what Conte thinks is the best way forward, hey in whatever upg we can in the transfer window to sort out some of the issues.

I like Winks. I rate Winks. Conte has kept trust with Hojbjerg, Winks starting is an option though I think more so in a midfield three.

Having seen us struggle to break down 10 man Southampton we went to poor form bus parking Watford and it was still Hojbjerg. If this wasn't the time for Winks over Hojbjerg in a three I'm not sure what will be?
 
thfcsteff said:
I think his systems have always been pretty clear, revolved around quality wing-backs and a strong, technically excellent midfield which can pass quickly and efficiently. I don’t think he will be signing ‘creatives’ as such, more decisive, fast and technically excellent players who can help the system(s).
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Yeah, creativity gets used in different ways so difficult to know.

Then again, I become unsure by what you mean by technically excellent. Seems a high bar. That would be great if that player was also capable of doing all the other things required.

I think tidy and effective on the ball will mostly do, though one technically excellent option would obviously help.
 
braineclipse said:
Yeah, creativity gets used in different ways so difficult to know.

Then again, I become unsure by what you mean by technically excellent. Seems a high bar. That would be great if that player was also capable of doing all the other things required.

I think tidy and effective on the ball will mostly do, though one technically excellent option would obviously help.
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To explain (hopefully :) ) I think his systems really do require fast football, one - two touch forward and fluid with that millimetres on that final ball perfectly executed. I don’t believe he will have been happy with the amount of times we had possession wide and failed to play a ball of any quality or purpose. So when I say technically excellent, I am talking about excellent consistent first-touch, top-drawer passing and elite pace (of thought as well as foot) when attacking. Too often we are slightly too loose. But it is getting there, and I am personally really happy with what he is getting from this squad (which I believe is GHod enough for 4th at a maximum push but will need 2-3 more to be any more than a prime chaser for that spot).
 
thfcsteff said:
To explain (hopefully :) ) I think his systems really do require fast football, one - two touch forward and fluid with that millimetres on that final ball perfectly executed. I don’t believe he will have been happy with the amount of times we had possession wide and failed to play a ball of any quality or purpose. So when I say technically excellent, I am talking about excellent consistent first-touch, top-drawer passing and elite pace (of thought as well as foot) when attacking. Too often we are slightly too loose. But it is getting there, and I am personally really happy with what he is getting from this squad (which I believe is GHod enough for 4th at a maximum push but will need 2-3 more to be any more than a prime chaser for that spot).
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Great explanation.

You talking about central midfielders or wing backs? Creativity and technical excellence from the wing backs I think it's definitely high up the agenda.

I was talking more about central midfielders. Fast, accurate football from them is certainly important too. Part of what has made Winks look like a really good option again is his ability on the ball to do just that.

Is Winks technically excellent? Not for me, but good enough on the ball in those situations to do the job well.

Even Hojbjerg, he's not that far away from being a very good midfielder for this system I think. That step may be difficult to take mind.

Just in my mind when you say technically excellent and I'm thinking about midfielders a different class of true deep playmakers including the more than lovely little Luca pops into my head. As great as someone like that would be I don't think we need someone close to that level to make this really work.
 
braineclipse said:
Great explanation.

You talking about central midfielders or wing backs? Creativity and technical excellence from the wing backs I think it's definitely high up the agenda.

I was talking more about central midfielders. Fast, accurate football from them is certainly important too. Part of what has made Winks look like a really good option again is his ability on the ball to do just that.

Is Winks technically excellent? Not for me, but good enough on the ball in those situations to do the job well.

Even Hojbjerg, he's not that far away from being a very good midfielder for this system I think. That step may be difficult to take mind.

Just in my mind when you say technically excellent and I'm thinking about midfielders a different class of true deep playmakers including the more than lovely little Luca pops into my head. As great as someone like that would be I don't think we need someone close to that level to make this really work.
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I suppose a good example of the sort of midfielder (who is in his prime) for this system is Kessie, who is an excellent CM with a range of passes and the ability to control the pace of the game effortlessly. I would’ve put Winaldjum in that category a couple of years ago. The pod lads will confirm that I speculated Winks would be a player Conte would return to some sense of former self and dignity because he is technically a really good player and he has a good ‘knuckle down’ attitude when Sgt Majored. I think for PEH to survive he will need to continue adding a few more goals to his locker because he is a prime example of someone whose touch and passing is not metronomic/reliable at all times.

Luka? Yeah, I mean, for me he is a rare footballer and I think one player of that calibre along with a proper RWB and another striker would see us back to excellence.
 
thfcsteff said:
I suppose a good example of the sort of midfielder (who is in his prime) for this system is Kessie, who is an excellent CM with a range of passes and the ability to control the pace of the game effortlessly. I would’ve put Winaldjum in that category a couple of years ago. The pod lads will confirm that I speculated Winks would be a player Conte would return to some sense of former self and dignity because he is technically a really good player and he has a good ‘knuckle down’ attitude when Sgt Majored. I think for PEH to survive he will need to continue adding a few more goals to his locker because he is a prime example of someone whose touch and passing is not metronomic/reliable at all times.

Luka? Yeah, I mean, for me he is a rare footballer and I think one player of that calibre along with a proper RWB and another striker would see us back to excellence.
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I think we more or less agree then. Consistent, accurate and quick passing without necessarily being seen as "creative". Metronomic, with a good portion of forward and line breaking passes.
 
Still looks to me like we are panicking the closer to goal we get, and as the game goes on the panic stretches back the way.
We were making some horrible passes and decisions in the last 20 minutes.
Strikers are misfiring but we are creating decent chances, it will come, patience is needed. Every training session will tighten things up and instil confidence.
 
It shows how predictable we are. Its like Watford saying "its just Davies on the right and they can't get through in the centre if we pack enough bodies, so let's pay extra attention on the new lad on the left".

We need better threats across the attacking front.

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metalgear said:
It shows how predictable we are. Its like Watford saying "its just Davies on the right and they can't get through in the centre if we pack enough bodies, so let's pay extra attention on the new lad on the left".

We need better threats across the attacking front.

Sent from my SM-T865 using Fapatalk
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The WBs are very important in Conte's system bit we need a bit more variety especially in games against hunkered in tight defences. Hopefully we can develop more variety in the coming months otherwise there will be quite a few frustrating games like Southampton and Watford.
 
Bullet said:
Shows that Royal repeatedly failed to back himself to cross well, and cut it back to Skipp who wasn't in a great position and isn't a great crosser either. Great tactics.
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Or that Royal looks up and sees there’s not a lot of options in the box. If someone wants to show images of all the times Royal had a plethora of options to pick out in the box, rather than just mainly Kane then Im yet to see them. With the way Watford were setup and the type of forwards we have on the pitch for the most part it would have required Beckhamesque crossing to create real chances. The Royal criticism has been OTT…..
 
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